Note the 4 points on the image: apathy, boredom, flow, and anxiety. I'm totally convinced that the mood condition that prevents Mormons from accepting the warts of Mormonism is anxiety and not apathy AT ALL!
I believe most TBMs oscillate between two main mood conditions: anxiety and boredom. Sure Porter, church can be boring but that doesn't mean they don't care, goddammit. If something starts to threaten their worldview, they shift from boredom to anxiety. It is fear that prevents them from looking.
Look, I was freaked out about the idea of possibly losing my faith. It was terrifying! Why am I alone in thnking this way? My old companion talked to me for an hour about my reasons for losing faith. I told him much of the horror but he stays. Why? Apathy? Hell no. He cares so much for the church and his belief. He is so worried about me, he is losing sleep every night. He told me he is worried because "he can't believe I don't believe." That scares him. That scared me. It scares my dad, who says he dreamed a carpet fell on my windshield on I-15, representing Satan covering my spiritual eyes, causing me to crash. It is fear.
That is my opinion. I can see what you are all trying to say, but it doesn't work for me. I'm willing to change my mind, but so far I don't see a reason to.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
Note the 4 points on the image: apathy, boredom, flow, and anxiety. I'm totally convinced that the mood condition that prevents Mormons from accepting the warts of Mormonism is anxiety and not apathy AT ALL!
I believe most TBMs oscillate between two main mood conditions: anxiety and boredom. Sure Porter, church can be boring but that doesn't mean they don't care, goddammit. If something starts to threaten their worldview, they shift from boredom to anxiety. It is fear that prevents them from looking.
Look, I was freaked out about the idea of possibly losing my faith. It was terrifying! Why am I alone in thnking this way? My old companion talked to me for an hour about my reasons for losing faith. I told him much of the horror but he stays. Why? Apathy? Hell no. He cares so much for the church and his belief. He is so worried about me, he is losing sleep every night. He told me he is worried because "he can't believe I don't believe." That scares him. That scared me. It scares my dad, who says he dreamed a carpet fell on my windshield on I-15, representing Satan covering my spiritual eyes, causing me to crash. It is fear.
That is my opinion. I can see what you are all trying to say, but it doesn't work for me. I'm willing to change my mind, but so far I don't see a reason to.
The only image that keeps popping in my mind in regard to the TBM and what may or may not be wrong with their church is that of three monkeys. One covering it's eyes, another it's ears and another it's mouth. While many go out of their way to understand more, it seems as if most have a threshold before they are conditioned to cover their eyes and ears. It's a simple method of preservation of one's belief.
zeezrom wrote: That is my opinion. I can see what you are all trying to say, but it doesn't work for me. I'm willing to change my mind, but so far I don't see a reason to.
I am with you on this Zee. Many Mormons I know are not lazy at all and they are some of the busiest people I know. I think all my Mom does is study church approved material and some how does not get bored with it. She thinks it is just all amazing and wonderful!
Sounds like we have very similiar families Zee that are worried about us. Hey it least your married because for some reason my family worries about me even more because I am not married. I wonder if they would still worry the same if I married an non Mormon. I just cringe at the thought on how my family would accept her.
Rambo wrote:Sounds like we have very similiar families Zee that are worried about us. Hey it least your married because for some reason my family worries about me even more because I am not married. I wonder if they would still worry the same if I married an non Mormon. I just cringe at the thought on how my family would accept her.
Rambo, I think you are right about our families. Well, if you were already married and then left, your in-laws would be exclaiming "betrayal!" but I see your point that marrying a non-member girl would be disappointing to them. My MIL is falling into deep depression these days, at least partly due to the changes my wife and I have gone through. Sometimes I consider lying to everyone and pretending I believe. Well, I toy with idea but I don't think I could actually do it. It sure is sucky, ain't it?
Hey, I'm watching Rambo right now, LOL! It's the scene where he is hanging in the pool of mud.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
Joseph's Mom narrates most of the movie. She referred to him as a kid "17 years of age, who had never read the Bible through in his life."
So let's get this straight. At age 14 he is visited by God and Jesus Christ, and yet for the next three years that experience doesn't influence him to read the Bible at all? Right. She also says, "In time, he would be given the knowledge to translate." Doesn't she mean he would be given a seer stone?
The translation scene begins with Joseph Smith removing a cloth from the plates. Two things here. First, this flies in the face of William Schryver's insistence that the plates weren't even there, nor were they needed since he wasn't doing a "conventional" translation. Secondly, there is no sign of the urim and tummin, seer stone or otherwise.
Practically everyone in the film showed interest in everyting Joseph had to say, except those who were conspiring to beat or kill him. Oh, and the spiritless weasle of a protestant minister who was always following him around with negative comments, such as telling him that his brother Alvin was "lost" because he died without baptism.
Then there was the further comparison to Jesus Christ with Joseph's tar and feathering by a mob. For a religious video, the scene was fairly graphic. It was important for the Church that people knew Joseph Smith suffered a tremendous amount of pain, just as Jesus did. One of the men responsible for his beating saw Joseph Smith preaching the very next day, with blood and scars on his face after the tar had peeled away skin. The guy looked with sincere eyes as if being moved by the spirit.
Joseph Smith opens his home up to other families who are awaiting their homes to be built in Kirtland. But no indication that Joseph Smith leeched off of his folowers, particulary a few wealthy folks like Martin Harris. In fact, there is no mention of Harris or the "lost" 116 pages.
Parly and Brigham are gushing over Joseph Smith's character while working in a lumberyard. Joseph then comes flying around the corner with a group of children. They appear to be playing about. Parley and Brigham just smile and shake their heads as if to say to themselves, that sure is one swell guy! Joseph was always doing chores for people even when they didn't accept his religion.
Joseph decided to move the Church only because other Mormons were under threat as well. Always putting others before himself of course. We're told taht Mormons were attacked because other settlers were jealous, and engaged in slander.
Hauns Mill! How could they not include this segment? Dead children laying in the field, and then an immediate leap to a clip of Joseph Smith reading the order by Governor Boggs, calling for the extermination of all Mormons. Of course, no mention of any aggression by the Danites during this confluct, such as the assault at Crooked River which took place just days before Hauns Mill was attacked. Joseph Smith was crying and screaming, confused that Boggs would attack the Mormons whose only crime was to build homes and worship God!
The narrator goes on to say, "I was comforted by the spirit of the Lord. And received the following promise. Your sons shall not be harmed. And five years from this time, Joseph will have power over all his enemies." Sure Lucy.
While in jail, some of the men were bragging about murdering a ten year-old at Hauns Mill. They kept going on and on and on until Joseph Smith had enough. He stood up and held his hand out at them, saying:
"Silence ye feinds of the eternal pit. In the name of Jesus Christ I rebuke you and command you to be still. I will not live another minute and hear such language. Cease such talk or you or I die this instant."
As the group of men pu their heads down in shame, one gets up and walks out to cry and Joseph Smith says, "the worth of every soul is great in the eyes of God." Gosh, the Church really is true after all! Only God's church could be led by such a wonderful and selfless man.
Then the violins kick in again and we have a scene of kids being taken out in the cold to be shot while crying "no, no no." Not sure what this was referring to, it couldn't have been Hauns Mill.
In Nauvoo we're told hundreds were stricken with illness. Joseph then goes around healing everyone and then starts handing over healed children to their crying fathers. The video is sure to mention Jane Manning, one of teh earliest black members of the Church. What they didn't mention is the fact that her petition to be sealed in the temple were subsequently revoked, and the First Presidency said that she would only be granted the honor of being "adopted into the family of Joseph Smith as a servant, which was done, a special ceremony having been prepared for the purpose." This was done by Joseph Smith's father and another woman by proxy, since poor Jane wasn't allowed to enter teh temple, despite having walked "900 miles" to join the Church.
Note the 4 points on the image: apathy, boredom, flow, and anxiety. I'm totally convinced that the mood condition that prevents Mormons from accepting the warts of Mormonism is anxiety and not apathy AT ALL!
I believe most TBMs oscillate between two main mood conditions: anxiety and boredom. Sure Porter, church can be boring but that doesn't mean they don't care, goddammit. If something starts to threaten their worldview, they shift from boredom to anxiety. It is fear that prevents them from looking.
Look, I was freaked out about the idea of possibly losing my faith. It was terrifying! Why am I alone in thnking this way? My old companion talked to me for an hour about my reasons for losing faith. I told him much of the horror but he stays. Why? Apathy? Hell no. He cares so much for the church and his belief. He is so worried about me, he is losing sleep every night. He told me he is worried because "he can't believe I don't believe." That scares him. That scared me. It scares my dad, who says he dreamed a carpet fell on my windshield on I-15, representing Satan covering my spiritual eyes, causing me to crash. It is fear.
That is my opinion. I can see what you are all trying to say, but it doesn't work for me. I'm willing to change my mind, but so far I don't see a reason to.
I'm pationate too. But I still disagree to some extent, afterall I do agree fear is in part an issue here. For one, two people among millions doesn't amount to much. For another, ifyour mission buddy truly cared, which he might, he'd look for the solutions to the problems that you say are troubling. He might poke around a little. he might find some information that he feels will be beneficial to you, but ultimately when it all fails for him, that is if he goes this route, he'll shrug off the concerns and not pay too much attention, most likely. "Oh well", he might say, "I know the church is true and that's what matters to me. My testimony isn't in history."
You say its fear, I say you are projecting a little, since it was so fearful for you, it seems. As it is, I get the impression that many LDS don't consciously think, "I'm afraid this Church is not true". Oh no, I think its more, "This church just has to be true, and it doesn't matter if someone thinks otherwise. I won't change my mind".
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Look, I was freaked out about the idea of possibly losing my faith. It was terrifying! Why am I alone in thnking this way? My old companion talked to me for an hour about my reasons for losing faith. I told him much of the horror but he stays. Why? Apathy? Hell no. He cares so much for the church and his belief. He is so worried about me, he is losing sleep every night. He told me he is worried because "he can't believe I don't believe." That scares him. That scared me. It scares my dad, who says he dreamed a carpet fell on my windshield on I-15, representing Satan covering my spiritual eyes, causing me to crash. It is fear.
That is my opinion. I can see what you are all trying to say, but it doesn't work for me. I'm willing to change my mind, but so far I don't see a reason to.[/quote]
Totally agree - fear/anxiety is what keeps us from looking.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
LOL! Standard Droopy. You're at your rawest form when faced with clear irrefutable facts, whether political or religious.
No sooner does Ronald McGraham come on the scene than the entire level of the thread sinks below even that which it had attained previously.
Kevin really needs to get a grip on the difference between "clear irrefutable facts" and his own psychological thought world.
Jon Stewart? Yes, a very apt example of Kevin Graham's general intellectual level, and so quite fitting that Kevin should hold him out as a paragon of political wit.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us
- President Ezra Taft Benson
I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.
LOL! Standard Droopy. You're at your rawest form when faced with clear irrefutable facts, whether political or religious.
No sooner does Ronald McGraham come on the scene than the entire level of the thread sinks below even that which it had attained previously.
Kevin really needs to get a grip on the difference between "clear irrefutable facts" and his own psychological thought world.
Jon Stewart? Yes, a very apt example of Kevin Graham's general intellectual level, and so quite fitting that Kevin should hold him out as a paragon of political wit.
Kevin's been doing a play by play on why the movie is dishonest. You, as usual, eschew substance in favor of your boring feud with Kevin.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Kevin's been doing a play by play on why the movie is dishonest. You, as usual, eschew substance in favor of your boring feud with Kevin.
Yes, from within his own subjective thought world, I see nothing in his "play by play" polemic that is in any remote sense analytical or carefully reasoned.
Oh, and I though it was his boring feud with me?
To each his own I suppose, but I'm sure this won't in any way prevent you from abandoning your boring feud with me over my boring feud with Kevin's boring feud with me.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us
- President Ezra Taft Benson
I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.