I get frustrated here because...

[_Buffalo]

See Dan?

Other people enjoy the banter between you and scratch. I'm sorry about the personal attacks around here but I really think having you two around is a great thing. I just wish it didn't have to be so serious and personal. I hope you aren't offended by my comment that I consider you two to be like Luke and Darth Vader.

So who is Luck and who is Darth Vader? Think about this carefully because Darth ends up joining the good side in the end.

What is more likely Dan to leave the church or Scratch to come back to church?

Maybe it's more like Spy vs Spy

[_stemelbow]

If Scratch and I are the same person, we/I have serious, serious problems, because I don't like him at all, and he's plainly consumed with hatred for me.

Well, yeah, but look at it from my perspective. Scratch doesn't do much of anything here if he's not complaining about you or something you've said. And it seems I don't see much of him in threads unless you're the topic or you post in said thread. I mean either he's a sock puppet or there truly is a person who is "plainly consumed with hatred for" Dr. Peterson. Why would anyone feel so much hate? I guess it happens. Its just unreasonable.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Other people enjoy the banter between you and scratch.

I realize that, and I see it as saying something very bad and regrettable about the board.

Scratch is deeply anonymous and yet, for five solid years now, has made it his principal business to accuse me -- publicly, falsely, and by name -- of innumerable types and instances of hateful and unethical behavior. His accusations against me will remain on the Web permanently, and are accessible to people around the world.

That several here find that funny, and see my denials of his claims as merely part of an amusing game, points (among other things) to the weirdly surreal character of the Web.

I'm sorry about the personal attacks around here but I really think having you two around is a great thing. I just wish it didn't have to be so serious and personal. I hope you aren't offended by my comment that I consider you two to be like Luke and Darth Vader.

See above.

[_stemelbow]

That several here find that funny, and see my denials of his claims as merely part of an amusing game, points (among other things) to the weirdly surreal character of the Web.

That's a good point. To me its all been so fantastically "out there" it just comes off as amusing, even if I've also seen it as disturbing. That he gets so much support here is troubling, particularly since I've grown to appreciate this place and its many voices.

[_Rambo]

I realize that, and I see it as saying something very bad and regrettable about the board.

Scratch is deeply anonymous and yet, for five solid years now, has made it his principal business to accuse me -- publicly, falsely, and by name -- of innumerable types and instances of hateful and unethical behavior. His accusations against me will remain on the Web permanently, and are accessible to people around the world.

That several here find that funny, and see my denials of his claims as merely part of an amusing game, points (among other things) to the weirdly surreal character of the Web.

Has scratch ever done anything to affect you in real life? Are you looking over your shoulders all the time wondering if someone is following you? Seriously I think Scratch is harmless and wouldn't try to do anything to affect your personal life. If he threatened you or tried to get you fired then yes I would have a problem with that. I just see you two bickering back and forth and I get amussed by it. If it causes you to lose sleep at night than I am truely sorry.

[_stemelbow]

Has scratch ever done anything to affect you in real life?

I don't know if he has or not. Its just that he goes around on this board casting all sorts of aspersions, it seems to me, on Dr. Peterson. Jumps on threads like this wherein Dr. Peterson comes along and comments light-heartedly and offers another attack on Dr. Peterson because he'll take note of the attack. To me its far different than the two bickering back and forth, as you put it. its Scratch playing childish games which in effect do nothing but attempt to paint Dr. Peterson in a bad light.

[_Some Schmo]

I don't know if there is much point in raising legitimate points regarding LDS. When I do it seems inevitable some posters here will complain about me (like calling me a liar for effect)...

If you are referring to me (since I did call you a liar), I didn't do it for effect. I did it because I suspect you lie quite a bit (or, at least, have... did you read my response to you in that thread?) I suppose a philosophical discussion could ensue about whether a person who repeats a lie they believe or have unconsciously told themselves is really lying or not, but the point is that I suspect at the very least, you've been disingenuous.

I think some of your frustration comes from not looking very closely in the mirror and understanding the part you play in all this.

...or worse yet run to the very next criticism of LDS that they have marked on their list ignoring and bypassing LDS comments--shooting shot guns right in my face. Its absurd to me that many posters here for whatever reason rarely if ever concede much positive about LDS when it gets down to the "nitty-gritty".

While the church may have some redeeming qualities, those qualities aren't anything that people couldn't get from hundreds of other avenues that don't carry all the baggage that comes with being LDS.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Has scratch ever done anything to affect you in real life?

Scratch is anonymous. I am not. Publicly associating me -- on line and by name, in the permanent international medium of the Internet -- with racism, anti-Semitism, dishonesty, the deliberate destruction of people's careers, malicious slander, threats of violence, voyeurism, and etc., affects me in real life.

Good name in man and woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls.
Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him,
And makes me poor indeed.
[Othello III.iii.155–161]

I get amussed by it.

That's too bad.

[_Themis]

I suppose a philosophical discussion could ensue about whether a person who repeats a lie they believe or have unconsciously told themselves is really lying or not, but the point is that I suspect at the very least, you've been disingenuous.

"Remember, it's not a lie if you believe it." George Costanza

[_stemelbow]

If you are referring to me (since I did call you a liar), I didn't do it for effect. I did it because I suspect you lie quite a bit (or, at least, have... did you read my response to you in that thread?) I suppose a philosophical discussion could ensue about whether a person who repeats a lie they believe or have unconsciously told themselves is really lying or not, but the point is that I suspect at the very least, you've been disingenuous.

So you disagree with me that calling someone a liar is pretty much pointless so your response is "you're a liar, or at the very least being disingenuous". Whatever. You do help to establish my point in the OP, though. This is stupid. How's that?

I think some of your frustration comes from not looking very closely in the mirror and understanding the part you play in all this.

Nice try.