NY passes same sex marriage

[_Morley]

why wrote: "However, if one does it this way, undemocratically,"
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The senators and representatives are elected as representatives of the voters. Also, the US is not a democracy. The States are not either.

l-dsince does not believe what it preaches and it shows quite well here. Not one word. tubbietommie the hypocrite missed the revelation and still silent voice to even speak on this one. What... too busy trying to find new widow ladies to glom cookies from?

Emphasis added.

Yes, it is.

[_Jason Bourne]

One major hurdle that was added to get the votes was a provision the protected religions and other organizations that may refuse to perform a gay marriage based on religious or other reasons.

The gay agenda is one step at at time. The pressure will come eventually. And then we will see people singing a different tune.

So you think that at some point the gay rights movement will try to force religions that opposes such unions to perform them? That for example the LDS Church will be forced to recognize such a marriage and seal them in the temple?

I am very skeptical this will ever happen.

[_Jason Bourne]

Oh I was also going to mention the the Church said nothing about this, at least that I heard. Not a peep. Not contact state leaders, yada, yada.

Their was no proposition before the electorate. And there was a reason for that. Any proposition that would have approved of same sex marriage would have been voted down. However, if one does it this way, undemocratically, there is a better chance of a win for the same sex marriage side.

Church members would have been involved if there were a proposition about same sex marriage.

The NY constitution does not allow for propositions like CA does. But there was not a proposition for DOMA either and the Church sent a letter out asking members to contact their congressmen and senators to encourage support of the bill.

And by the way last I checked why me we live in a republic and have a democratic republic form of government. That means you vote on your legislators and they make and vote on the laws. The NY vote certainly was no undemocratic. Almost every law in every state and for the nation become laws under this method.

You might want to bone up on the constitution.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

One major hurdle that was added to get the votes was a provision the protected religions and other organizations that may refuse to perform a gay marriage based on religious or other reasons.

The gay agenda is one step at at time. The pressure will come eventually. And then we will see people singing a different tune.

So you think that at some point the gay rights movement will try to force religions that opposes such unions to perform them? That for example the LDS Church will be forced to recognize such a marriage and seal them in the temple?

I am very skeptical this will ever happen.

Then polygamy is legalized.

Gay Polygamist Mormons, GPLDS?

A huge problem with is is an LDS man having men also married to him for time and all eternity, which man will be the god? And how would these gay godhoods procreate billions and billions(say it like Carl Sagan) of spirit babies?

What will the lesbian couples do in heaven? with no way to knock each other up, will that just be a nuisance?

[_Jason Bourne]

Since decisions are being made in cigar smoked rooms without the democratic process of voter participation it should be no surprise that such decisions are made in state assemblies.

You should be more concerned about the lack of a participatory demcracy in America.

Oh brother! When was the last time a federal law or bill was put up for vote to the entire populace? Try never. Most laws do not become law that way in the US of A, nor for most laws in the states. Didn't you know this?

[_why me]

So, why me, do you believe that laws that are passed by Congress are also undemocratic?

This is how a representative democracy works. Please read the U.S. constitution.

Please read how a participartory democracy works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participatory_democracy

America is not a participartory democracy by any stretch.

I believe that in the US there is a dictatorship of one class---the rich. If we look at the working class in the US we can see immense suffering from the decisions and the laws made by the rich.

The middle class have lost their homes, their jobs, their savings in the market etc. But the rich are still on top.

[_why me]

So you think that at some point the gay rights movement will try to force religions that opposes such unions to perform them? That for example the LDS Church will be forced to recognize such a marriage and seal them in the temple?

I am very skeptical this will ever happen.

You can be skeptical. But the pressure will come from the gay rights activists. As I said, it is one step at a time. And some churches will succumb. Will they be forced to change? Maybe not. But the pressure will be severe.

[_why me]

And by the way last I checked why me we live in a republic and have a democratic republic form of government. That means you vote on your legislators and they make and vote on the laws. The NY vote certainly was no undemocratic. Almost every law in every state and for the nation become laws under this method.

You might want to bone up on the constitution.

The last time I checked Americans live in a dictatorship of the rich. The rich make the laws and they rule the country. The working class have very little rights, thus, many of the poor end up in jail for stealing a pizza and commiting more serious crimes. Who died in the vietnam war? The sons of the rich? Hardly. It were the poor kids who died in that war.

Have you read Howard Zinn's The People's History of the United States?

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinnkin5.html

You can read several chapters of the book from the linked site. But the chapter that I linked to is an important chapter to see the class nature of the constitution and the so called Republic.

[_why me]

A fair point.

What, exactly, were those opposed to gay marriage supposed to do?

I suppose they could have still made an outcry, regardless if they had a vote or not.

The people have no voice in the USA. But there is an illusion of voice. Do you really think that the US is a democracy of the people? Hardly. The rich control business, politics, and the media. And the ecomonic agenda caters to the rich and certainly not the poor. What happened in NY is just one example of how state assemblies bypass a participatory democracy. But then again, America is not a participatory democracy. The media gives the middle class and the poor garbage on TV, influencing their minds.

And of course, the gay lifestyle has been a favorite of the television during the last several years. This has also influenced people a great deal in the mainstream.

[_Malcolm]

So you think that at some point the gay rights movement will try to force religions that opposes such unions to perform them? That for example the LDS Church will be forced to recognize such a marriage and seal them in the temple?

I am very skeptical this will ever happen.

You can be skeptical. But the pressure will come from the gay rights activists. As I said, it is one step at a time. And some churches will succumb. Will they be forced to change? Maybe not. But the pressure will be severe.

An interesting point, particularly here in the UK now that Civil Partnerships (gay marriage) is law, is that a Registrar (Marriage Celebrant) cannot object to performing gay marriages. Or to be more specific, they cannot object on religious grounds. At least two Registrars have been demoted for refusing to marry gay couples. One was told that she could either resign or take a job with less responsibility, such as filing clerk or Receptionist, the other a man who is of an evangelical persuasion was told to take early retirement.!
So it is my guess that churches will be challenged on their stance on this issue, I cannot imagine any gay couple would want to marry in an LDS community, they would have had the 'third degree' on coming out!