NY passes same sex marriage

[_why me]

An interesting point, particularly here in the UK now that Civil Partnerships (gay marriage) is law, is that a Registrar (Marriage Celebrant) cannot object to performing gay marriages. Or to be more specific, they cannot object on religious grounds. At least two Registrars have been demoted for refusing to marry gay couples. One was told that she could either resign or take a job with less responsibility, such as filing clerk or Receptionist, the other a man who is of an evangelical persuasion was told to take early retirement.!
So it is my guess that churches will be challenged on their stance on this issue, I cannot imagine any gay couple would want to marry in an LDS community, they would have had the 'third degree' on coming out!

Wasn't a couple refused the right to adopt because they were christian fundalmentalists? I think so. Americans are rather naïve about all this. Plus, Americans are brainwashed by their media to such an extent that they mostly follow the pied piper off the pier.

I just love it when Americans believe that they live in a democracy. Democracy is also in short supply in Europe as market economics takes center stage and political parties begin to lose their difference. And participartory democracy is becoming extinct with Switzerland still holding out but the rest of Europe controled by the EU elite.

[_CaliforniaKid]

The gay agenda is one step at at time. The pressure will come eventually. And then we will see people singing a different tune.

You're joking, right? You honestly think anyone in this country wants to force religious groups to perform gay marriages? I think not. What religious groups do is their own damn business, just as what gays do is their own damn business. Liberals want to privatize morality, not to make people gay at the point of a sword.

[_why me]

You're joking, right? You honestly think anyone in this country wants to force religious groups to perform gay marriages? I think not. What religious groups do is their own damn business, just as what gays do is their own damn business. Liberals want to privatize morality, not to make people gay at the point of a sword.

The process takes a one step at a time approach. There will be pressure in the future. Not yet, but it will come. The catholic church has received such pressure. I remember the gay pride parade in New York stopping in front of Saint Patrick's Cathedral shouting anticatholic slogans because of their stance on the gay lifestyle a few years ago. And what about the Mormon church in california? The gays were out full force being critical of the LDS church.

[_CaliforniaKid]

The process takes a one step at a time approach. There will be pressure in the future. Not yet, but it will come. The catholic church has received such pressure. I remember the gay pride parade in New York stopping in front of Saint Patrick's Cathedral shouting anticatholic slogans because of their stance on the gay lifestyle a few years ago. And what about the Mormon church in california? The gays were out full force being critical of the LDS church.

I'm critical of the LDS and Catholic Churches on this issue, too. But chanting slogans is vastly different from trying to impose standards of behavior via government. I don't think you understand the stance of the Democratic Party. Democrats stand for collectivist economics, but privatized morality. Republicans stand for collectivized morality, but privatized economics. Just because imposing your moral standards is what your party has done when it has had the power doesn't mean you should project the same intentions on Democrats. Argue against what we do stand for, not what you fantasize we might stand for a hundred years from now.

[_CaliforniaKid]

Any proposition that would have approved of same sex marriage would have been voted down.

This is why we elect informed people to make such decisions for us.

[_Morley]

The people have no voice in the USA. But there is an illusion of voice. Do you really think that the US is a democracy of the people? Hardly. The rich control business, politics, and the media. And the ecomonic agenda caters to the rich and certainly not the poor. What happened in NY is just one example of how state assemblies bypass a participatory democracy. But then again, America is not a participatory democracy. The media gives the middle class and the poor garbage on TV, influencing their minds.

And of course, the gay lifestyle has been a favorite of the television during the last several years. This has also influenced people a great deal in the mainstream.

Emphasis mine.

Why me, I don't agree with your basic premise. The U.S. is a Representative Democracy by any accepted definition of the term. Are we extremely dysfunctional and have enormous problems with implementation? Yes, I'll agree with you there.

However, let's take your argument to its logical conclusion. Your inference is that the rich, whom you say control the country, want us to have gay marriage. Why would they want that? How does the institution of gay marriage further the interests of the wealthy power elite? I doubt if I'm the only one who thinks this seems preposterous.

edited spelling

[_harmony]

The last time I checked Americans live in a dictatorship of the rich. The rich make the laws and they rule the country.

How can this be, when it's the Democrats who control the White House?

[_harmony]

The people have no voice in the USA.

Voice = vote. If you don't vote, you have no right to complain.

But there is an illusion of voice.

You obviously don't live in my state, where ballot measures win and lose, and elected positions are decided on less than 10 votes often.

Do you really think that the US is a democracy of the people? Hardly. The rich control business, politics, and the media. And the ecomonic agenda caters to the rich and certainly not the poor.

I'm wondering who you're calling "rich". Because most of the LDS leadership is "rich". Even Packer, who never worked a day after he was called yet was paid from tithes of the poor and widowed, has an estate worth more than a million.

The media gives the middle class and the poor garbage on TV, influencing their minds.

What are you referring to, when you say "media"? Garbage? Influence?

And of course, the gay lifestyle has been a favorite of the television during the last several years. This has also influenced people a great deal in the mainstream.

What are you referring to?

[_why me]

Why me, I don't agree with your basic premise. The U.S. is a Representative Democracy by any accepted definition of the term. Are we extremely dysfunctional and have enormous problems with implementation? Yes, I'll agree with you there.

However, let's take your argument to its logical conclusion. Your inference is that the rich, whom you say control the country, want us to have gay marriage. Why would they want that? How does the institution of gay marriage further the interests of the wealthy power elite? I doubt if I'm the only one who thinks this seems preposterous.

edited spelling

There is a difference beteen a participartory democracy and a so called representative democracy as I have shown in a link on this thread.

I never said that the rich wanted gay marriage. Gay marriage is a social liberal initiative that was primed by the Television media. In the US there has been many sitcoms involving gays and lesbians. All showing gays and lesbians as part of the mainstream. The media influence in softening american social values is very strong, especially when it comes to the gay lifestyle.

If the US had a truly representative democracy, the middle and working class would not be suffering at this moment. It is known that the rich are not suffering as the economic laws are geared toward benefiting them.

From its very inception, the united states has been a country contolled by the propertied classes, who make the laws and support a particular ideology.

[_why me]

The last time I checked Americans live in a dictatorship of the rich. The rich make the laws and they rule the country.

How can this be, when it's the Democrats who control the White House?

The democrats and the republicans support the same ideology: capitalism. It matters little who is in power. The poor and the middle class are still unrepresented in government as the current economic crisis has shown. Who suffered during this current economic fall? The middle and poorer classes. The rich are still surfing along doing just fine. By rich, I mean the top couple percentage points of the population.