Hoffman forgeries

[_OSWIT]

So, the whole series of events surrounding the Hoffman forgeries; are they faith promoting or faith destroying, and why?

[_stemelbow]

So, the whole series of events surrounding the Hoffman forgeries; are they faith promoting or faith destroying, and why?

Just like most other things they are a little of both. as to why? I'll someone else take that up.

[_consiglieri]

I am unable to find anything faith promoting regarding the Mark Hoffman forgeries, Stem.

Perhaps you could elucidate?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_stemelbow]

I am unable to find anything faith promoting regarding the Mark Hoffman forgeries, Stem.

Perhaps you could elucidate?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I meant that tongue in cheek. But the guy is in jail and he did create forgeries and faith abounds in some, so there's got to be something faith promoting with him. I looked up a wiki article and it says he probably really lost his faith when he was 14 and an old girlfriend said he served a mission because of pressure not because he believed. The faith promotin in that: he was an apostate and that is why he was so coniving and evil.

[_consiglieri]

The faith promotin in that: he was an apostate and that is why he was so coniving and evil.

LDS apostates killing people and fooling prophets with forgeries is faith promoting?

Please try again.



All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_OSWIT]

Here is an email a friend forwarded to me, it sparked this post:


Note from the stake 1st councilor about our assigned topic for July.This is hard subject to tackle without creating a lot of interest in maybe the thing that will lead people seeking the mysteries.

Brethren,

I really appreciated the instruction we received from Bro. xxxxxxx last month. It was a personal, heartfelt presentation of relevant ideas. I have thought a fair bit about what he had to say. I am not sure if you are going to brave the subject or not (even though I think you should), but if you are planning on addressing it I thought I would share something I carefully followed a long time ago that has stuck with me ever since.

In the early 80’s a man by the name of Mark Hoffman discovered several significant historical documents—several of them were important to our own history. The first was a document containing Book of Mormon characters like those Joseph gave to Martin Harris to show linguistic scholars in the east. Everyone was pretty excited to have this important piece to our history since physical evidences for the Book of Mormon are essentially non-existent. Later he discovered another document that became known as the salamander letter. This letter associated Joseph with the occult and magic and was not a positive document spiritually-speaking. Our scholars invested significant energy being excited about the first discovery and apologetic about the second. At that time, Time Magazine (May 20, 1985-Challenging Mormonism’s Roots) interviewed a number of scholars about the salamander letter. Jan Shipps, a well-known non-LDS Mormon historian argued that this would now force the church to confront the fact that what we believe “is not the way it was”. I would have expected as much from her.
What caught my attention in the article was a interview with an LDS professor at Queens University in Ontario. His name was Klaus Hansen and he said, speaking about the salamander letter, “It’s an incredible crisis of faith for me..it means our historical foundation becomes a nice story that has no connection to reality.” A young LDS woman studying to be a lawyer said, “it’s another [emphasis added] ) evidence (apparently she was already looking for this kind of evidence) to me that things have gone awry in the church.” A fascinating conclusion to draw about the current day church from a document purported to have been written in the very early days of the church.

The letter was brought to light in 1983 many thereafter questioned the divinity of the church’s origin and of course the reality of Joseph’s call to restore it. Time Magazine did their piece in May of 1985 and by the spring of 1986 Mark Hoffman had been charged for the bombing murders of two people. What would later come to light was the connection between the bombing and the documents he had found. The many, many documents he found and profited by were all forgeries. After these events my mind raced back to the article in the Time magazine and to the two LDS people who had abandoned their faith when exposed to Hoffman’s documents. Now that these documents were proven to be forgeries I was forced to ask, “What do those people do now?”

We may look for and long for physical evidence to support our faith, but I doubt we will have much if any of it. If we place our faith or our lack of it in the absence of evidence we become easy prey to doubt and to the persuasion of doubters.

In a very strange way I am grateful for the Mark Hoffmans and the Klaus Hansens who strive to undermine this work and fail; or abandon the faith in the face of so-called evidence only to be proven otherwise. These unfortunates have taught me a valuable lesson—to be patient with the Lord and to wait for that which He will eventually reveal to those who remain full of faith despite the glaring absence of physical evidence. It has taught me that jumping to a conclusion is very dangerous and can leave us stranded in a place that is difficult to come back from.

There will be hundreds, if not thousands, more challenges to our faith as we go forward. It must be because this work is a threat to the work of the adversary and he will continue to amplify his opposition. We must remember what we believe and what we have felt about those beliefs for that conviction and that conviction alone will see us through the subtle and blatant lies that will be spread about this work. Do not exchange what the spirit has spoken to your heart for the whisperings of dissension that will eventually and always be proven false.

I do not know what Klaus Hansen is doing today, but I can’t help but feel that he is anxiously engaged in justifying his lapse of faith and perhaps actively working to destroy the faith of others and all because he took of leap of doubt born of a lie.

Pres. XXX

XXX XXXX
LDS Institute Director
XXXXX,XXXX

[_consiglieri]

We may look for and long for physical evidence to support our faith, but I doubt we will have much if any of it. If we place our faith or our lack of it in the absence of evidence we become easy prey to doubt and to the persuasion of doubters.

Was the talk about "physical evidence to support out faith"?

The 1st counsellor is less than pellucid.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_stemelbow]

LDS apostates killing people and fooling prophets with forgeries is faith promoting?

Please try again.



All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I was being silly again, Consig. I'm not very good at making that clear. I certainly don't think "apostates" as they are called are killers and forgerers. I was going for a ridiculous explanation of how it could be faith promotin'.

[_Willy Law]

I am not sure I would call it faith promoting, but I can see how the Hoffman affair could be used to help the church.
I have already seen faithful members try and dismiss the entire content of the book Mormon Enigma because there was a reference to a Hoffman document.
Church members can now allow themselves an out to any historical evidence by saying they just don't know if those historical documents are legit.
Again, not faith promoting, but useful.

[_OSWIT]

So,

Faith promoting/"useful":
- used as an example to dismiss criticism & historical evidence

Non faith promoting:
- demonstrates lack of revelation or special insight in top church leaders

Anything else?