Mormons are ashamed of their own beliefs

[_Joseph]

As far as Mormon morons and dark skin, According to the 3rd president of the Mormon church, John Taylor, Cain's curse of a dark skin marks the representatives of the Devil:

“And after the flood we are told that the CURSE that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through HAM'S WIFE, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? because it was necessary that the DEVIL SHOULD HAVE A REPRESENTATION upon the earth as well as God;...” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 22, page 304)

Again, remarkable. A remarkable case of the pot and the kettle.

You really need to get yourself sorted, JoJo.
**************************************

So, what about the l-dsinc view presented? is the quote accurate? Does it reflect the views of l-dsinc fatcats?. Is or was this taught by church leaders?

[_Joseph]

ol'paranoidboys lived in lindon some time ago. 1960's for a while. Sold the house to John Fugal who was a teacher of religion at BYU. The Fugals left boyds painted wall in the living room as it was with the birds packer saw in the yard painted on the wall. Nice paintings but nothing boyd would give up seminary teaching for.

[_Buffalo]

I've been a guest in President Packer's home. I spent a couple of hours talking with him one Sunday morning at his invitation, and then, before I left, he showed me his workshop.

Do all the windows in the house face the same direction?

[_Runtu]

Are you sure about that?

It's been years since I was there, and, although I remember the house rather well, I don't remember precisely where it was nor how to get there. But I could swear that it's somewhat southeastward in the Salt Lake Valley, relatively close to the mountains but nowhere near Hogle Zoo, and not in a canyon (secluded or otherwise).

I stand corrected. I must be confusing him with someone else who bought a piece of property near Hogle Zoo. Granted, it's been a while, but I remember being in a meeting at the COB where one of the apostles was asked about construction on his home, which was on a private drive behind Hogle Zoo by Emigration Canyon. I thought it was President Packer, but apparently it wasn't. Sorry about that.

I don't care if they have nice homes or cars (back in the 90s they were driving Crown Vics or Mercury Marquises--Glenn Pace's had custom rims on it). They work incredibly long hours when they should be enjoying retirement. I have no problem with them having some creature comforts to compensate for that sacrifice.

[_harmony]

I don't care if they have nice homes or cars (back in the 90s they were driving Crown Vics or Mercury Marquises--Glenn Pace's had custom rims on it). They work incredibly long hours when they should be enjoying retirement. I have no problem with them having some creature comforts to compensate for that sacrifice.

When the sacrifice of my widowed cancer survivor 25 year school bus driver MIL pays for those creature comforts, that's not their sacrifice. She paid tithing to help build up the kingdom, not build up million dollar estates for men who leech off the poor and widowed.

Every dime of that house is paid for with the tithes of the poor and widowed (he didn't own it when he was called in 1961). If he was still living in the house he had when he was called in 1961, I'd have no complaint. If he'd sold that house in order to build the present house, I'd have no complaint. He didn't. He took money from the tithes of the poor and widowed, and built what is now worth a million dollars... which will go to his FAMILY, instead of back into the tithes. So his family will also continue to benefit from 50+ years of Packer having his hand out and having it filled with the tithes of the poor and widowed.

That he is not ashamed to accept the money says a lot about his character. That the church tries to hide it says a lot about the integrity of the men in charge of the checkbook. That the books aren't open and this sort of thing is inside them says 'way too much about this church.

[_Daniel Peterson]

As I said above, no amount of evidence or reasoning will separate harmony from her consuming contempt for the leaders of the Church. It's perhaps her single least attractive public trait, but she clings to it with grim tenacity.

It's already been pointed out that the house wasn't paid for by tithing funds, that it's an old and relatively modest one, that it's the oldest in its neighborhood (which should suggest, to anybody who knows real estate, that the value of the land on which it sits rose markedly after it was built), and so on and so forth.

But none of that makes any difference to harmony, who, when she hates, hates passionately and irrationally.

[_harmony]

As I said above, no amount of evidence or reasoning will separate harmony from her consuming contempt for the leaders of the Church. It's perhaps her single least attractive public trait, but she clings to it with grim tenacity.

It's already been pointed out that the house wasn't paid for by tithing funds

Yes, it was.

that it's an old and relatively modest one,

Modest = million dollars now? In your world, maybe. Not in mine.

that it's the oldest in its neighborhood (which should suggest, to anybody who knows real estate, that the value of the land on which it sits rose markedly after it was built), and so on and so forth.

You know my answer, Dan. If a person had integrity, said person would not accept 50+ years of tithing money to pad his own nest. If said person absolutely had to be paid out of tithing funds, said person would take only the most basic of funds, and would not build an estate at all, let alone a million dollar one. Said person would be ashamed and embarrassed of any colleague who took excess funds for any reason, knowing the sacrifices of the poor and widowed to pay their tithes. Said person would not hide behind a secret financial system, and said person would not allow a lie to stand. Packer does allow all those things.

But none of that makes any difference to harmony, who, when she hates, hates passionately and irrationally.

[/quote]

Damn skippy. There are few people in the world that I despise as much as I despise him. It's very difficult to separate him from his office, but I manage, in order to sustain the office. Long live Pres Monson, because if Packer ever becomes prophet, I'm gone.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Modest = million dollars now? In your world, maybe. Not in mine.

As you know, I know where you live. So, yes, I don't think that the real estate values in now-urban Salt Lake Valley fully translate into your world.

President Packer's very unpretentious home -- I think I'm the only person here who has actually been in it, and even given a tour of it -- isn't worth a million dollars. But, having a large family, he bought a pretty large spot of land when he build it, when that land was quasi-rural, and property values have appreciated many times over the decades. (My own home lot is several times as expensive now as it was when my wife and I bought it, and we bought it only in the mid-1980s, roughly a quarter of a century after Elder Packer bought his. We could not afford our lot now.)

There are few people in the world that I despise as much as I despise him.

I know. And it's shameful, and very unbecoming to you.

He doesn't deserve such hatred.

Pray to God that God judges you more mercifully and justly than you judge Elder Packer.

[_Buffalo]

Likewise, Elder Packer should pray for more merciful judgment than that which he uses against, gays, intellectuals and feminists.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Likewise, Elder Packer should pray for more merciful judgment than that which he uses against, gays, intellectuals and feminists.

I think he's been misrepresented and slandered very grievously on those issues.