Mormons are ashamed of their own beliefs

[_why me]

Hello,

This is why I don't understand the reluctance to mainstream a bit more quickly. Mormons simply want to be Christians without all the baggage that comes with believing their strange stuff. Ancient Jews populating the Americas. Kolob. Getting your own planet/Universe. Eternal polygamy. This is really strange stuff.

They should just get on with designating everything but the Bible "inspired fiction" and let it go. It's going that way, anyway.

V/R
Dr. Cameron

Oh my gosh....do protestants believe strange stuff? Do catholics? Do hindus? What about muslims? I am rather proud what Mormons believe. I see a good people who believe in god and live accordingly. Are they perfect? No. But one can not argue with the end result of living LDS beliefs.

[_harmony]

You're right, Ludwig. Harmony's "Tithing Trough" expression, which she coined to describe how she sees the leaders of the Church -- or at least, how she wants her uninformed audience to see them -- is disgusting. It is atrocious, foul, horrid, nasty, nauseating, offensive, repellent, repulsive, revolting, ugly, unwholesome, vile; also, abhorrent, abominable, antipathetic, contemptible, despicable, despisable, detestable, filthy, foul, infamous, loathsome, lousy, low, mean2, nasty, nefarious, obnoxious, odious, repugnant, rotten, shabby, vile, and wretched.

It's also demonstrably false.

So I hope you will take comfort in the fact that I will be delighted to stop reminding her of it, just as soon as she admits that it was nothing but an expression of her own character.

Regards,
Pahoran

And you can say this with a straight face... and know that you will not be banned.

What an awesome place this is! You fit right in!

[_why me]

Doctrine supported by LDS Scriptures.
2 Nephi 5: 21

'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'
Alma 3: 6

Have you read the Bible? The early church were not too enthusiastic about gentiles. And Christ didn't seem to be concerned about their fate since he did not spend any time among them. He stuck to a select group of people and soldiered on until they killed him. They were called the chosen people by god which is still being used today to imprison palestians on the west bank and gaza. The chosen people have a right to palestian land because god told them so. The Bible is not exactly fair to non-jews.

The Book of Mormon was mainly written in old testament times. When one compares the old testament with the Book of Mormon written during old testament times, one can find a far more gentler book when it comes to race than what one can find in the old testament. The old testament god was a strange god.

[_Pahoran]

and blacks being evil in the pre-existence

We don't believe that, so why would we want to talk about it?

You mean you don't believe in racism now, after God supposedly changed his mind in 1978?

"Supposedly" according to whom? Not according to us.

And you are clearly -- and intentionally -- shifting the goal posts. "Blacks being evil in the pre-existence" has never been taught by the Church.

The doctrine changed the "white and delightsome" part in 1981, but to ignore what remains is rooted in ignorance of the truth... something you know a lot about. When you state "we" in the above to speak for all Mormons, did you actually mean "I" instead?

Even if Simon speaks for only one Mormon, that's still one more than you do.

Snip boilerplate anti-Mormon propagada.

White and Delightsome or Pure and Delightsome? - A Look at 2 Nephi 30:6

By Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson

Wow. I couldn't be more impressed if it had been written by Ed Decker.

Snip more boilerplate anti-Mormon propagada.

Chronology of 2 Nephi 30:6

"... many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a WHITE and a delightsome people." (1830 Edition, p. 117)

"... PURE and delightsome people." (1840 edition)

"...WHITE and delightsome people." (All later translations until 1981)

"... PURE and delightsome people." (1981 translations , II Nephi 30:6)

Which, despite your hate-based spin, clearly disproves the standard anti-Mormon lie that the change was made in 1981 to somehow "cover up" after the 1978 revelation, which actually affected a completely different group of people.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Pahoran]

It was originally "White and delightsome" before it was changed. From the supposed "most perfect book ever written" it was later changed, changed again, and continues to change.

You may have explained this before, but bear with me. Why was it changed to PURE and delightsome in 1840? And who authorized the change?

You're actually asking a Protestant anti-Mormon to explain your religious texts to you?

Can you think of anything more daft than that?

Regards,
Pahoran

[_harmony]

Can you think of anything more daft than that?

Regards,
Pahoran

Yes, asking Pahoran to explain anything. Period.

[_Willy Law]

Actually I heard president eyring give a talk and he spoke about the latest economic crisis. He said that president monson instructed the financial services department of the church to get out of the market and put the church's money in more safe investments. This was before the economic downturn when investment firms thought that it was crazy to do so. And sure enough just as the money was transfered the market fell. The impact was so great that one japanese investment firm that the church does business with sent a representive to salt lake to discuss just how the LDS church knew when to do this transaction. The answer: the LDS church has a prophet to lead it.

The LDS church does not broadcast over loud speakers when they are helping the poor. But the LDS church helps the poor a great deal. Much more than would be expected from a church with just a few million members.

Not saying you did not hear eyring say this, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that the story is complete Paul H Dunn material.
The church was hit just as hard, if not harder due to RE holdings, than any other corporation over the past seven years.

[_why me]

Which, despite your hate-based spin, clearly disproves the standard anti-Mormon lie that the change was made in 1981 to somehow "cover up" after the 1978 revelation, which actually affected a completely different group of people.

Regards,
Pahoran

: = ) I had to give you a big smile for that comment.

[_why me]

Not saying you did not hear eyring say this, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that the story is complete Paul H Dunn material.
The church was hit just as hard, if not harder due to RE holdings, than any other corporation over the past seven years.

When he spoke I assumed that it was the latest crisis. It could have been the one before the latest one. We seem to have these economic crises very often these days. However, one can not separate oneself from the market entirely. But the LDS church has done quite well financially for a church of a few million. It's worth is not one would expect from such a church with a small membership, where many of these members are not so rich.

[_Pahoran]

I'm not really sure, but I'm fairly sure it was Brigham Young who made sure it was changed back.

In other words, you have no "data" (a.k.a. predigested and regurgitated anti-Mormon pabulum) to support your baseless accusation.

Got it.

Now for the real facts:

The 1840 revision of the Book of Mormon was made by Joseph Smith. At that time, the Book of Mormon was being published simultaneously in both England and America. The Nauvoo edition used Joseph Smith's 1840 revision, but the British edition used his 1837 revision. From 1844 to 1847, while the Church in the American Midwest struggled to survive the Christian lurve of its enTHEWSiastic neighbours, the printing presses pressed on in Preston. (Actually Liverpool, but Preston works better.) Only 2000 copies were printed of the 1840 Nauvoo edition; over 4000 copies were made in 1841 of the first British edition, and subsequent editions were made in 1849 and 1852.

By 1879, with all those converts coming from Europe with their British Book of Mormon's, the British editions had become the standard. So when Orson Pratt crafted a new edition with the chapters and verses we currently know, he used the British text as his source.

This whole doctrine changing thing is just a part of Mormonism that one must blindly accept.

Indeed. Since there is no actual evidence of doctrinal change, one must blindly accept, based upon the say-so of Thews and his ilk, that it happens.

Regards,
Pahoran