Just want to vent

[_Willy Law]

or going gay or something, well, that's a different matter.

I am glad when I left the church I decided to "go hetero". It was a tough call since we all have total control and get to decide our sexual orientation, but for the sake of my family I decided to stay hetero.

[_LDSToronto]

The mother of my children dropped me like a bad habit when she found out I didn't believe in Mormonism any more.

As a matter of principle when I was in a position to be dispensing advice I never, ever said that your wife's actions would have been appropriate. As long as you are a good father it would be foolish to subject your children to some other man raising them. But if you combined your departure with porn addiction or major substance abuse or going gay or something, well, that's a different matter.

That said, your wife had every right in the world to leave you. She signed on for a religious marriage and she was entitled to it. That goes for Merc's case as well. This principle applies to whatever faith one might be. A devout Catholic wife has the right to leave her new unbelieving husband.

Too bad. I know the Church and its history far better than you and it is still true to me.

This pisses me off. Whatever happened to marrying a person, loving a person? I told my wife, when I started having doubts, that I married *her*, not a religion, not an ordinance, I married *her* because I loved *her*, not because I loved Mormonism.

Leaving a person because they have lost faith is morally wrong in my books.

H.

[_madeleine]

Mercury,

My dear wife identifies herself as NOM. She knows that the LDS Church is a religious scam, yet she still has a calling and attends almost every Sunday.

She readily admits to being embarrassed by many of the teachings of the Church. Politically, she is a Democrat. She enjoys the occasional "R" rated movie, and even (heaven forbid) will drink green tea now and then.

However, in our home it is pretty much understood that we will NOT discuss, or even mention, Joseph Smith's sexual promiscuity (especially his polyandry) and his treatment of Emma Smith.

She is BIC and this subject is one she simply cannot deal with. She gave the lesson in Relief Society during the year that the life of Joseph Smith was the subject. She understands what a blatantly misleading and false picture the LDS Church paints of Joseph Smith. Yet she cannot bring herself to discuss this issue.

At some deep level it is still genuinely painful for her to even think about this. If I bring it up (which I have learned not to do), she takes my comments as an almost personal attack.

I have no explanation for why this is. But I can tell you that your experience with this issue is not unique.

Best wishes.

Can't speak for your wife, but speaking from my own experience, polygamy puts women in a status of an object that indicates the man has something *more*. Whether it be more wealth, status among the society where it is being practiced or a perceived favor with God.

If you believe even an ounce of what Mormonism teaches about the Mormon god, then the only conclusion is that this god is a right and proper misogynist jerk and every male Mormon who supports what this god supposedly teaches is not to be trusted. Ever.

It is more than a wind blowing across the house of cards. It is the cards being burnt to the ground. It is impossible to stay in Mormonism once this occurs. It would make being a "NOM" impossible as well. In short, I saw the cage and left like I had rocket fuel in my soul. Others, want to ignore the cage as long as possible.

[_Mercury]

At some deep level it is still genuinely painful for her to even think about this. If I bring it up (which I have learned not to do), she takes my comments as an almost personal attack.

I have no explanation for why this is. But I can tell you that your experience with this issue is not unique.

If I had the grant money and ethical sign-off I'd have Mormons, exmos, noms and a control group hooked up to an EEG, heart rate monitor GSR monitor. I would then proceed to play factual statements that shopw Joseph Smith in the true light.

I bet we would find out a great deal about how a religion can manipulate the fight or flight response embedded in us genetically for the religions uses.

[_Mercury]

This pisses me off. Whatever happened to marrying a person, loving a person? I told my wife, when I started having doubts, that I married *her*, not a religion, not an ordinance, I married *her* because I loved *her*, not because I loved Mormonism.

Leaving a person because they have lost faith is morally wrong in my books.

H.

Exactly. This is the situation I am faced with. When you marry in moism you are marryting the church and kind of your wife. If you leave Mormonism, chances are good that they will consider leaving. Its sick and wrong that drinking coffee is considered by Mormons to be breaking marriage vows.

[_Yahoo Bot]

This pisses me off. Whatever happened to marrying a person, loving a person? I told my wife, when I started having doubts, that I married *her*, not a religion, not an ordinance, I married *her* because I loved *her*, not because I loved Mormonism.

Leaving a person because they have lost faith is morally wrong in my books.

H.

I'd agree with you if you got married by the justice of the peace.

But marriage is usually a religious sacrament. If you were married in an LDS Temple or by a Catholic priest, you committed not only to your marriage but to your God and your faith. Your wife signed onto that concept and it wasn't good enough for her to just be married by a justice of the peace.

So you can be pissed off all you want but once you became faithless that was all she wrote for some women. If you wife came to me and asked my advice, and so long as you weren't beating her or gone gay, I'd told her to stick with you.

[_Yahoo Bot]

You "know" all of the Mormon church's history, but choose to "take no position" when you reach a dead end? Seems a convenient way to dodge the topic... the same "position" Dr. Peterson choose by ignoring the history.

I take no position on whether the Kinderhook Plates Joseph Smith saw were authentic or not.

Bad example.

How can I take a position as to whether the Kinderhook plates were authentic or not without some evidence? I do know that the one in the Chicago museum is a fake.

I can take a position about your posts. They are moronic. :highfive:

[Guest]

I'd agree with you if you got married by the justice of the peace.

But marriage is usually a religious sacrament. If you were married in an LDS Temple or by a Catholic priest, you committed not only to your marriage but to your God and your faith. Your wife signed onto that concept and it wasn't good enough for her to just be married by a justice of the peace.

So you can be pissed off all you want but once you became faithless that was all she wrote for some women. If you wife came to me and asked my advice, and so long as you weren't beating her or gone gay, I'd told her to stick with you.

It's not that easy. Ignoring the elephant in the room can only be maintained for so long. People change... their views change. Mormonism is a mindset, and part of that mindset is to brand any truth about what is not true (based on the facts) is "anti" to insert the scary notion that you won't be sealed or get to the top tier in Mormon heaven. If life changes, you either change with it or compromise. I find these stories tragically sad, as whatever one chooses to believe is their choice... sometimes there is no compromise.

[Guest]

As a matter of principle when I was in a position to be dispensing advice I never, ever said that your wife's actions would have been appropriate. As long as you are a good father it would be foolish to subject your children to some other man raising them. But if you combined your departure with porn addiction or major substance abuse or going gay or something, well, that's a different matter.

That said, your wife had every right in the world to leave you. She signed on for a religious marriage and she was entitled to it. That goes for Merc's case as well. This principle applies to whatever faith one might be. A devout Catholic wife has the right to leave her new unbelieving husband.

Too bad. I know the Church and its history far better than you and it is still true to me.

Yahoo Bot,

Has it ever occurred to you that the Church makes truth claims, and promises to its members based on these truth claims, and that many of its truth claims are demonstrably false?

Why would someone like Mercury be ascribed any fault whatsoever for his leaving the Church once he learned that he and his wife had been systematically lied to by an institution they trusted?

The Church has been shown to misrepresent the truth to its members (and to non-members) fairly regularly and consistently over time, starting with Joseph Smith. The LDS Church and its members have no moral standing whatsoever when it comes to telling the truth or keeping promises. The Church does neither.

The LDS Church has massive culpability in terms of detrimental reliance for the havoc brought into the lives of its BIC members. (Like those caught up in Scientology, those who joined the LDS Church as adults should have known better.)

The LDS Church is a corporation that has been lucky enough to retain the legal status of a religious organization. Were this facade stripped away, I would imagine that folks suing the remaining Corporation for return of tithing contributions obtained under false pretense and other direct and indirect damages would pick its bones clean in short order.

[_thews]

I take no position on whether the Kinderhook Plates Joseph Smith saw were authentic or not.

Bad example.

How can I take a position as to whether the Kinderhook plates were authentic or not without some evidence? I do know that the one in the Chicago museum is a fake.

I can take a position about your posts. They are moronic. :highfive:

You are contradicting yourself. You claimed to know Mormon history, then back off on a position. We all know the Kinderhook plates are fake... the church admits this. If you wish to claim there were plates that Joseph Smith translated correctly, it's done by ignorance of the facts. The Kinderhook plate known to exist is authentic... an authentic fake. You choose to "take no position" to evade acknowledging the history you claim to know so much about... your need to avoid taking a stand is transparent. I disagree that you "know" Mormon history as you claim, because if you did you'd take a position. Your "moronic" position is to avoid an answer.