Angelic energy consumption

[_truth dancer]

The thing is, acknowledging the fact that we have learned a lot about how the universe works, I'm guessing that in another thousand years, (not to mention a million), our species, (which will most likely be a hybrid of human/computer), will have figured out all sorts of new things about life, existence, and the universe.

In other words, I think we are limited in our knowledge and information.

Who knows, the universe may create some new form of energy, or something new that makes all of life as we know it, completely obsolete.

~td~

[_Scottie]

I agree with TD.

100 years ago, people would be saying "Just how many trees do we need to cut down for fuel to make it to the moon?"

[_DrW]

The thing is, acknowledging the fact that we have learned a lot about how the universe works, I'm guessing that in another thousand years, (not to mention a million), our species, (which will most likely be a hybrid of human/computer), will have figured out all sorts of new things about life, existence, and the universe.

In other words, I think we are limited in our knowledge and information.

Who knows, the universe may create some new form of energy, or something new that makes all of life as we know it, completely obsolete.

~td~

Perhaps in another universe it would be possible to for matter or information to travel at speeds greater than 3 x 10 exp 10 cm/s. (299,792,458 m/s) in a vacuum.

Pretty unlikely in this one.

After all, laws are laws.

[_honorentheos]

The thing is, acknowledging the fact that we have learned a lot about how the universe works, I'm guessing that in another thousand years, (not to mention a million), our species, (which will most likely be a hybrid of human/computer), will have figured out all sorts of new things about life, existence, and the universe.

In other words, I think we are limited in our knowledge and information.

Who knows, the universe may create some new form of energy, or something new that makes all of life as we know it, completely obsolete.

~td~

Perhaps in another universe it would be possible to for matter or information to travel at speeds greater than 3 x 10 exp 10 cm/s. (299,792,458 m/s) in a vacuum.

Pretty unlikely in this one.

After all, laws are laws.

DrW,

As much as I like your ideas and how fun this topic is, I think the truth is closer to TD and Scottie's points.

For example, a stoned Mormon sophomore physics student may postulate that prayer and heavenly beings operate under the laws of quantum mechanics. Perhaps prayer is instantly manifest to God via entanglement? Perhaps Gods and Angels do not travel at all, but instead manifest physical properties through collapsing of a quantum state in localized places?

Just for kicks, of course.

[_DrW]

As much as I like your ideas and how fun this topic is, I think the truth is closer to TD and Scottie's points.

For example, a stoned Mormon sophomore physics student may postulate that prayer and heavenly beings operate under the laws of quantum mechanics. Perhaps prayer is instantly manifest to God via entanglement? Perhaps Gods and Angels do not travel at all, but instead manifest physical properties through collapsing of a quantum state in localized places?

Just for kicks, of course.

If you read through my above "megapost", you will see that useful (classical) information cannot be transmitted (practically or even theoretically) at superluminal speeds by quantum entanglement.

If you are interested in why this is, just google "quantum information channels" and/or "classical information channels".

As I stated, in nature there are certain laws.

[_truth dancer]

OK, I am obviously not a physicist however, wasn't there a time when gravity didn't exist? Granted it was only a tiny, fraction of a second, still, it seems that certain developments had to take place before gravity could exist no?

Perhaps there is more to come? Maybe in another billion years a whole new type of energy will exist beyond the four we know of? Maybe we will discover new stuff within dark matter?

My point is that in a million years, I am certain we would find all sorts of new aspects of the universe that we cannot measure or quantify or even glimpse today.

It seems to me that as we develop the ability to observe more of the universe, more of it shows itself. :-)

Right now, humans can experience, what, seven, (five plus vestibular and proprioceptive), senses so all of our understanding is based on these, but who is to say that as we evolve we do not develop another ten or twenty or hundred? And, with technology added to our form, it seems we could evolve in unlimited ways, which would mean we could experience all sorts of new aspects of the universe.

OK, feel free to tell me I do not know what I am talking about! LOL!

Still, I do not like to think that what we know today is all that there is. I'm guessing we are only at the beginning of what is to come in human evolution. I mean, humans began observing the universe in a conscious way only about 50,000 years ago and if the average species lasts about seven to ten million years, well there is a lot more to come.

~td~

[_honorentheos]

TD -

Yes, there was a moment immediately after the big bang on the order of a fraction of a fraction of a second when the universe was pure energy and the four major forces were unified.

Some theoretical physicists postulate that gravity is only a manifestation of some phenomena at the classical level that, when fully understood under a unified theory (quantum mechanics and relativity) may prove to be, well, relative.

While I don't disagree with what DrW says, per se, it seems awfully short-sighted as well. As Feynman famously said, "I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics." It seems the more we learn, the less intuitive it seems.

SA recently included some fun, accessible reports and interactives on QM that you may find to be interesting reading. Again, just for kicks. - SA on QM

[Guest]

OK, I am obviously not a physicist however, wasn't there a time when gravity didn't exist? Granted it was only a tiny, fraction of a second, still, it seems that certain developments had to take place before gravity could exist no?

Perhaps there is more to come? Maybe in another billion years a whole new type of energy will exist beyond the four we know of? Maybe we will discover new stuff within dark matter?

My point is that in a million years, I am certain we would find all sorts of new aspects of the universe that we cannot measure or quantify or even glimpse today.

It seems to me that as we develop the ability to observe more of the universe, more of it shows itself. :-)

Right now, humans can experience, what, seven, (five plus vestibular and proprioceptive), senses so all of our understanding is based on these, but who is to say that as we evolve we do not develop another ten or twenty or hundred? And, with technology added to our form, it seems we could evolve in unlimited ways, which would mean we could experience all sorts of new aspects of the universe.

OK, feel free to tell me I do not know what I am talking about! LOL!

Still, I do not like to think that what we know today is all that there is. I'm guessing we are only at the beginning of what is to come in human evolution. I mean, humans began observing the universe in a conscious way only about 50,000 years ago and if the average species lasts about seven to ten million years, well there is a lot more to come.

~td~

I do not disagree that human perception and understanding of the universe will expand as time goes on. One need only look at how our sensory perception has been extended in the last century by our scientific instrumentation.

Modern instrumentation allows us to directly observe material objects from the size of atoms (atomic force microsocpe) to the size of galaxies.

We can indirectly observe subatomic particles and have extended our range of detection for electromagnetic waves (photons) far beyond the visible spectrum in both directions. We are very close to the ability to detect gravity waves (assuming they exist, and there is a high probability that they do).

We now understand that the fundamental forces in nature are mediated by particles (such as photons for electromagnetism), and this insight has lead to an appreciation of th eimportance of physical constants in nature.

Many of these observations and discoveries, and more importantly the mathematics that we use to understand them, show that one of these constants (the speed of light) represents a fundamental speed limit for the transfer of matter and information in the universe.

While we have yet to understand the fine nature of "dark energy" and "dark matter", it is no more likely that these will affect the speed of light in a vacuum than it was that nuclear energy and subatomic matter (which we did not understand until the last 120 years or so) would affect the speed of light in a vacuum or gravity (the gravitational constant), or the values of any of the other universal constants.

The speed of light in a vacuum is one of the universal constants. Luckily for us, there are a quite a number of universal constants.

http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Constants/

Most of these values have been stable for the last 14 billion years or so and are not likely to change in any significant way as the universe grows older.

(In some cases, these constants are interdependent and we would be screwed as a species if their values changed.)

While speculation about what lies ahead for humankind is always fun, I would strongly recommend that you not invest money in perpetual motion machines or superluminal travel (because they are against the law here).

[_jon]

Angels get their energy from the sun and the sun gets its energy from Jesus.

I think you'll find the sun gets it's energy from Kolob...

[_Buffalo]

. And then there are matter-antimatter reactions which produce far more energy than fusion, so I think the available energy is there.

Maybe you've just solved the anti-matter deficit problem for the universe - Moroni and the Archangels ate it all.

I lol'd :D