Rich's Website

[_Simon Belmont]

Rich, stop posting your articles.

No one is reading them, and you're using that tactic to get away from the hard questions that I am asking you.

Why are all the links on your site to anti-Mormon sites?

[_Yoda]

Rich, stop posting your articles.

No one is reading them, and you're using that tactic to get away from the hard questions that I am asking you.

Why are all the links on your site to anti-Mormon sites?

How is "History of the Church" an anti-Mormon source?

[_Simon Belmont]

How is "History of the Church" an anti-Mormon source?

What are you referring to?

[_rich kelsey]

How is "History of the Church" an anti-Mormon source?

Liz, one of my links is to Joseph Knight's history: Joseph Knight’s Recollection of Early Mormon History

I'm sure you know who he is, yet for those who do not, he is the man who had the horse and carriage that Smith borrowed; and, as I said earlier the work is a word for word transcript from BYU. They have it in a downloadble PDF. I made it more assessable. This is primary source material. It is good stuff and I used it in the following work:


An Incredible Story Part II — Joseph Smith's First Vision

Rich Kelsey

(Continued... from page 8)

To get a glimpse into Mormonism’s true foundation we must continue to dispel the fog. What needs to fade away completely is any notion that the revival Joseph Smith spoke of in the first vision story took place in Smith’s neighborhood in the year 1820.

A revival in that area is documented in the local New York newspapers; it took place in 1824. Records[xxiii] indicate that Joseph’s Mother Lucy did end up joining the Western Presbyterian Church in Palmyra, along with Joseph’s brothers Hyrum, Samuel Harrison and his sister Sophronia. That Presbyterian Church was the only Church in Palmyra with a meeting house; it only makes sense that this was the “meeting house” spoken of by Lucy in her history.

”For a time, Lucy affiliated with a Presbyterian church in Palmyra, though she was excommunicated for nonattendance the month before the LDS Church was organized.” (BYU Studies, Smith, Lucy Mack, by Anderson, Richard Lloyd/The Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Macmillan, 1992)

Let’s do some math:

The LDS Church was organized on April 6th 1830, if Lucy was excommunicated the month before, this would mean that she was still a member in good standing up until about March, 1830. Church records indicate that she was in attendance as late as 1828. This also lines up with other sources claiming that she quit attending sometime after Joseph supposedly obtained the golden plates.



One might wonder why Lucy and the other family members joined a church and continued to be members year after year after Joseph had experienced the first vision! Did they not believe Joseph’s story about the Son telling him,

“…join none of them, [churches] for they were all wrong."[xxiv]

Here is one way this question has been answered at Brigham Young University:

“The Prophet does not suggest that he confided his first vision to his family, and his mother reports only that she had early knowledge that an angel later revealed the Book of Mormon.” (BYU Studies, Smith, Lucy Mack, by Anderson, Richard Lloyd/The Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Macmillan, 1992)

Lucy and the rest of the Smith family not hearing about Joseph Smith’s first vision during their years with the Western Presbyterian Church in Palmyra makes more sense than the story of Joseph suffering severe persecution at the hands of all classes of men, both religious and irreligious, because he continued to affirm that he had seen a vision.[xxv]

Mormon theologians go on to say that Joseph Smith discussed what was to become the 'First Vision,' “only privately with a few trusted friends during the Church’s first decade.” (BYU Publication)

(page 9)

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Lucy’s History Continued:

According to Lucy Smith’s history, the first vision that Joseph did tell her about was the 1823 bedroom vision:

“One evening we were sitting till quite late conversing upon the subject of the diversity of churches that had risen up in the world and the many thousand opinions in existence as to the truths contained in scripture. …After we ceased conversation he (Joseph) went to bed and was pondering in his mind which of the churches were the true one… he had not laid there long till he saw a bright light entered the room… an angel of the Lord stood by him. The angel spoke I perceive that you are enquiring in your mind which is the true church there is not a true church on Earth No not one” (First draft of Lucy Smith's History, p. 46, LDS Church Archives/Early Mormon Documents, Vol. 1, p. 289-290).


The angel went on to tell Joseph about the plates,

“Joseph there is a record for you and you must get it one day… the record is on a side hill on the Hill of Cumorah 3 miles from this place remove the Grass and moss and you will find a large flat stone pry that up and you will find the record under it laying on 4 pillars—<of cement> then the angel left him…”[xxvi]

· Lucy claimed this angelic vision happened in 1823,[xxvii] in Smith’s room at night.

· Oliver Cowdery wrote of an angelic vision occurring in 1823,[xxviii] in Smith’s room at night.

· In the History of the Church there is account of an angelic vision occurring in 1823, in Smith’s room at night.

According to the various vision stories, the year 1823 is well established as the time an angel appeared in Smith’s room telling Joseph about the golden plates. Yet there is something very troubling about Lucy’s account of this 1823 room vision. It sounds a lot like Joseph’s later-dated first vision story. Because the angel perceived that Joseph was enquiring in his mind,

“…which is the true church…”

Then the angel told Smith,

“there is not a true church on Earth No not one.”[xxix]

It’s worth mentioning that in 1853, when Lucy Smith’s history was published:

· The angel had told Joseph something completely different![xxx]

And,

· The dialog of the angel telling Joseph that there was not a true church on earth had been deleted!

(page 10)

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The Son’s message to Joseph Smith in '1820' is basically the same as the angel’s message in '1823,'

· In 1820 the Son said: “…join none of them, for they were all wrong."[xxxi]

· In 1823 the angel said: “there is not a true church on Earth, No not one”

This is one more indication that the first vision story is a later invention by Joseph Smith, in which he used some of the same elements from the story he was originally telling; then separated the two stories and backdated his later version to the year 1820.


The Record Gets Worse:

The LDS Church teaches that a teenage Smith came out of the sacred grove after experiencing the first vision in 1820 with a new and better understanding of the nature of God,

“He [Christ] together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p.7)


Mormons envision Joseph Smith, while praying for the first time in his life, having a vision of the Father and His Son, and coming away from that experience with more knowledge about God’s nature,

“…than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.”

Since Mormons believe the gospel was first preached[xxxii] in Adam’s day, from the beginning[xxxiii] of creation, they are expressing that in a matter of minutes the teenage Joseph Smith learned more about God’s nature than all the learned ministers of the gospel from the beginning of creation up until the year 1820.

Specifically, what is being said by, “he [Smith] knew more of the nature of God,“ is the Mormon teaching that the Father and His Son have bodies of flesh and bones. This teaching is spelled out in Mormon Scripture and is currently accepted as essential doctrine:

The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us. (Doctrine and Covenants, Section 130:22)


Section 130 of the Doctrine and Covenants, where God’s nature is spelled out, was not written in the early years of Mormonism. It was penned in 1843, which is 23 years after Smith supposedly prayed in the grove, experienced the first vision, and learned about Heavenly Father’s flesh and bone nature.


(page 11)

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Section 130 is found in a work with the full title description: Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of the Latter Day Saints: Carefully Selected from the Revelations of God. This title indicates that the understanding of the Father having a body of flesh and bones is a revelation of God. If Joseph Smith was teaching that both the Father and the Son have a flesh and bone nature in the 1830s, it seems odd that the Church would be given a revelation on this teaching in 1843.

Also, if Smith had made it clear to his church that Heavenly Father has a body of flesh and bones in the early 1830s, they didn’t get the message! Because in the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants in Lectures,[xxxiv] which were once published as doctrine, it is written,

There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing, and supreme power over all things, by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible, whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space. They are the Father and the Son the Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fullness, the Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made, or fashioned like unto man... [xxxv]


In the entire volume of the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants, there is not one word mentioning that Heavenly Father has a body of flesh and bones. On the contrary; the Father is called,

“…a personage of spirit…” (1835 Doctrine and Covenants)

Compare this to,

…but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is "a personage of Spirit...” (Current Doctrine and Covenants, Section 130:22)

If the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones but is a personage of spirit, then what about the Father? When Heavenly Father was described as,

“a personage of Spirit...”

Wouldn’t that also indicate that He does not have,

“a body of flesh and bones” like the Holy Ghost?

Eventually, the Lectures were removed from the Doctrines and Covenants. Reasons[xxxvi] given for their removal were so that people might avoid confusion[xxxvii] on the subject of the Godhead.


Removing the earlier teaching indicates that,

· Early Mormon theology is incompatible with later Mormon theology.

And,

· Today’s teaching about Heavenly Father’s nature did not originate with early Mormonism.


(page 12)

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Endnotes:

[xxviii] (Messenger and Advocate, Kirtland, Ohio, Dec. 1834, vol.1, p.78)

(page 21)

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[xxix] (First draft of Lucy Smith's History, p. 46, LDS Church Archives/Early Mormon Documents, Vol. 1, p. 289-290).

[xxx] “…He called me by name, and said unto me me [sic] that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi; that God had a work for me to do, and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues; or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people…” (Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet and His Progenitors for Many Generations, Lucy Mack Smith, Coray/Pratt 1853, Chapter 18).

[xxxi] (Joseph Smith History of the Church, Volume One, 1:19)

[xxxii] “And thus all things were confirmed unto Adam, by an holy ordinance, and the Gospel preached, and a decree sent forth, that it should be in the world, until the end thereof; and thus it was. Amen.” (Moses 5:59)

[xxxiii] “Adam and Eve bring forth children—Adam offers sacrifice, serves God—Cain and Abel born—Cain rebels, loves Satan more than God, and becomes Perdition—Murder and wickedness spread—The gospel preached from the beginning “ (Chapter description: Book Of Moses, Chapter 5)

[xxxiv] Authorship of Lectures is uncertain; however, studies suggest that Lectures was largely written by Sidney Rigdon with substantial involvement and approval by Joseph Smith and possibly others. Smith was involved, both in their authorship in November 1834 and in their later preparation for publication in January 1835. (See History of the Church 2:169-170 and 2:180). The original title of each lecture was "Of Faith." It was not until 1876, in an edition of the Doctrines and Covenants edited by Church Historian Orson Pratt of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, that the title was changed to "Lectures on Faith."

[xxxv] (1835 Doctrine and Covenants — Lectures on Faith, lecture 5)

[xxxvi] According to Joseph Fielding Smith, at the time an Apostle-theologian in the LDS Church, the reasons were:

"(c) They are not complete as to their teachings regarding the Godhead. More complete instructions on the point of doctrine are given in section 130 of the 1876 and all subsequent editions of the Doctrine and Covenants.”

[xxxvii] "(d) It was thought by Elder James E. Talmage, chairman, and other members of the committee who were responsible for their omission that to avoid confusion and contention on this vital point of belief, it would be better not to have them bound in the same volume as the commandments or revelations which make up the Doctrine and Covenants." (as told to John William Fitzgerald, A Study of the Doctrine and Covenants, M.A. Thesis, Brigham Young University, page 344).

[_Themis]

Rich, stop posting your articles.

No one is reading them, and you're using that tactic to get away from the hard questions that I am asking you.

Why don't you answer the hard questions you are being asked.

Why are all the links on your site to anti-Mormon sites?

Anyone who has paid enough attention to your use of the phrase knows it has little meaning other then an attack phrase, so I would be skeptical of what you call anit-mormon. Why not back up what you are asserting if you really want to be taken seriously.

[_Simon Belmont]

Anyone who has paid enough attention to your use of the phrase knows it has little meaning other then an attack phrase, so I would be skeptical of what you call anit-mormon. Why not back up what you are asserting if you really want to be taken seriously.

I did back it up. I discussed all of the links earlier in the thread.

[_Themis]

Anyone who has paid enough attention to your use of the phrase knows it has little meaning other then an attack phrase, so I would be skeptical of what you call anit-mormon. Why not back up what you are asserting if you really want to be taken seriously.

I did back it up. I discussed all of the links earlier in the thread.

Actaully you were asked to show what was inaccurate on his site, not on other sites. Again I am sure there are inaccuracies on every site, especaially apologetic ones, but unless you can back up your assertions, why should we take you seriously, and how do you expect him to fix mistakes. Your problem is that you do not respect people beliefs, and their right to express them, and he does have beliefs in regards to the church. You might try to see yourself as other see you here, and you might see who really is expressing hate and negativity. You might also try and see it from his perspective, and you might see that he considers himself to be trying to enlighten people in these three groups.

[_rich kelsey]

Actaully you were asked to show what was inaccurate on his site, not on other sites. Again I am sure there are inaccuracies on every site, especaially apologetic ones, but unless you can back up your assertions, why should we take you seriously, and how do you expect him to fix mistakes. Your problem is that you do not respect people beliefs, and their right to express them, and he does have beliefs in regards to the church. You might try to see yourself as other see you here, and you might see who really is expressing hate and negativity. You might also try and see it from his perspective, and you might see that he considers himself to be trying to enlighten people in these three groups.

Themis,

With this in mind I will continue to lay out the remainder of this article.


An Incredible Story Part II — Joseph Smith's First Vision

Rich Kelsey

(Continued... from page 12) http://richkelsey.org/STORY%20PART%20TWO.htm#_ednref38

There is little doubt that that the first vision story is the basis for the teaching of Heavenly Father’s flesh and bone nature. However, the later development of the teaching points to the conspicuous reality that the first vision is a later development of Mormon thought.[xxxviii]


More Contradictory Statements:

If Smith really did have a vision in 1820 which set the stage for the teaching of Christ and Heavenly Father as separate gods, he must have forgotten about that vision, while spelling out:

“…And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.” (1830 Book of Mormon, Testimony of Three Witnesses)

And,

“…Jesus is the Christ, the ETERNAL GOD… BY JOSEPH SMITH, JUNIOR, AUTHOR AND PROPRIETOR” (1830 Book of Mormon Preface)

Also:

In the year 1820, (the year the First Vision supposedly took place) if Smith had learned that Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father were different beings, then why would he correct a Bible verse thirteen years later to demonstrate:

“…no man knoweth that the Son is the Father, and the Father is the Son, but him to whom the Son will reveal it.” (Luke 10:23, Joseph Smith Translation)

The original wording is:

“…no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him." (Luke 10:23, KJV)

The conventional reading of Luke 10:23 in no way demands or even implies that,

“the Son is the Father”

and/or

“the Father is the Son.”

If Smith would have left this verse unchanged it would not have contradicted what he would later publish as the ‘First Vision.’ Yet, he did correct this verse in Luke; which gives every indication that in the early 1830s Smith had yet to form the basis of the official LDS 'First Vision' story.


An Angel Appears to Joseph Smith:

In the early years of Mormonism the only vision that Smith’s neighbors, family, friends, and associates[xxxix] were aware of was Smith’s dream[xl] or vision[xli] of an angel in his bedroom telling him about golden plates. People living in the 1830s considered this bedroom vision Joseph Smith’s first vision, not his second vision[xlii] as it is referred to today.


(page 13)

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Many have heard of that story.[xliii] Smith claimed that the spirit of a dead man[xliv] (Moroni) who had buried golden plates about 1,400 years earlier, and who was now an angel, eventually allowed him to take possession of the plates. Smith maintained that he had been led to the treasure[xlv] by divine providence in 1823. Yet, Moroni did not allow Smith to obtain the plates until 1827; four years to the day after Smith first attempted to retrieve them.

This story has been told many times and in many different ways. The name of the angel differs[xlvi] with some accounts as do many other details in the story; however, the timing of the events remain basically the same — that in 1823 Joseph Smith first discovered where the golden plates were buried; then in 1827 he obtained them.


The concept of a dead man’s spirit who had buried treasure earlier and was now keeping charge over it was common in Smith’s day. These spirits would almost always need to be appeased by doing exactly as they instructed before the treasure seeker could receive the desired gold or silver.

In the case of the golden plates, the spirit instructed the young Smith in what he needed to do,[xlvii] and what he must not do. Joseph Smith was told that he must not set the plates on the ground but he must go directly on his way with them. According to the story, Smith did set them on the ground and because of that misdeed the spirit did not allow Smith to have the plates the first time he attempted to get them.

The angel told Smith to come back on the same day the following year. This went on for four years in a row until Smith finally met the spirit’s requirements and was allowed to take the plates.



Joseph Knight’s Recollection:[xlviii]

One of Joseph’s Smith’s most trusted and faithful-friends was a farmer named Joseph Knight.

Speaking of Joseph Knight, Smith said,

“[He] was among the number of the first to administer to my necessities, while I was laboring in the commencement of the bringing forth of the work of the Lord, and of laying the foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.[xlix]

Smith had told[l] Knight about events leading up to his obtaining the golden plates. Knight penned a hand written account of Smith’s story. This account was written sometime between 1833 and Knight’s death in 1847. This manuscript is now in the LDS Church’s archives.

In 1976 the work was published at the LDS/Mormon University (BYU) as part of “BYU Studies” by Dean Jessee, who, during his career was a leading expert on the early writings of Joseph Smith; Jessee worked as a historian at the Church’s Historical Department.

The wonderful thing about Knight’s account is that it is an early version of the story based upon what Smith told him in the late 1820s.

(page 14)

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The only part of the work that is missing is the first page or two which no doubt included the bedroom dream or vision that led Smith to the plates.

What is left of the manuscript starts with the words

“From thence he went to the hill where he was informed the Record was…”

The details of the story are:

· Smith went to the hill, uncovered a plain box and took out the book.

· He laid the book down by his side and went to cover the area back up because he thought that there might be something else there.

· Although he had been told to take the book and go right away.

· After he covered up the place he turned around to take the book but it [the book] was gone.

· When he opened the box for the second time he saw that the book was back in the box.

· He took hold of the book, but this time he could not move it.

· Smith asked, “Why..?”

· He was answered, “You can’t have it now.”

· Smith asked, “When can I have it.”

· He was answered, “The 22nd day of next September if you bring the right person.”

· “Joseph says, ‘Who is the right person?’”

· “The answer was, ‘Your oldest Brother.’”

· “But before September came his oldest Brother died.”


Let’s pause for a moment. This story has all the markings of typical American folklore and/or folk magic associated with buried treasure and guardian spirits. It doesn’t help that the spirit told Smith to bring his oldest Brother (Alvin) the next year, promising Smith that if he brought Alvin he could have the plates next September 22nd. Surely God knew that Alvin would be dead by then!

· Smith didn’t know what to do. Next September 22nd he went there again, and, “the personage appeared and told him he could not have it now.” “But the 22nd day of September next he might have it if he brought the right person.”

· “Joseph says, ‘Who is the right person?’ the answer was, ‘You will know.’”

· “Then he [Joseph Smith] looked in his glass and found it was Emma Hale.”

(page 15)

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The reference “he looked in his glass” was a reference to one of Smith’s seer stones.[li] During the very years[lii] that Smith was waiting to obtain the golden plates he was selling his services[liii] as a “glass looker.”[liv] Toward the end of Knight’s account of Smith’s early history, Knight mentions a trial[Las Vegas] in which a “warrant”[lvi] had been issued against Smith for “pretending to see underground.”[lvii] Knight claimed that this trial* lasted “all day,” and then, the next day “until midnight.”


The story continues:

· Joseph was married to Emma Hale.

· A seer by the name of Samuel Lawrence “had been to the hill and knew about the things in the hill and was trying to obtain them.”

· Come the next 22nd day of September, Joseph borrowed Knight’s horse and carriage without his knowledge and early in the morning Knight got up and noticed that the horse and carriage were gone.

· When Joseph returned with the horse and carriage, he exclaimed, “It is ten times better than expected… Then he went on to tell the length and width and thickness of the plates’ and said, ‘they appear to be Gold…' But he seemed to think more of the glasses… [Joseph Smith said] ‘I can see anything; they are Marvelus (sic).’”


If people were to look into the environmental settings the young Joseph Smith was raised in, they might get a better understanding of the folklore and/or folk magic which Smith based his stories upon. Knight’s account contains many of the same details[lviii] as other early versions of the story; it is sugarcoated to some extent, but one can still get a taste of the bitter pill[lix] that lies underneath.[lx]


For example:

In 1831, the local Palmyra newspaper said this about the Smith family and their history of money digging:

"We are not able to determine whether the elder Smith was ever concerned in money digging transactions previous to his emigration from Vermont, or not, but it is a well authenticated fact that soon after his arrival here, he evinced a firm belief in the existence of hidden treasures, and that this section of country abounded in them. -- He also revived, or in other words, propagated the vulgar, yet popular belief that these treasures were held in charge by some evil spirit...

This opinion however, did not originate by any means with Smith, for we find that the vulgar and ignorant from time immemorial, both in Europe and America, have entertained the same preposterous opinion."


(page 16)

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Newspaper article continued:


"It may not be amiss in this place to mention that the mania of money digging soon began rapidly to diffuse itself through many parts of this country; men and women without distinction of age or sex became marvellous wise in the occult sciences, many dreamed, and others saw visions disclosing to them, deep in the bowels of the earth, rich and shining treasures, and to facilitate those mighty mining operations, (money was usually if not always sought after in the night time,) divers devices and implements were invented, and although the spirit was always able to retain his precious charge, these discomfited as well as deluded beings, would on a succeeding night return to their toil, not in the least doubting that success would eventually attend their labors.

Mineral rods and balls, (as they were called by the imposter who made use of them,) were supposed to be infallible guides to these sources of wealth -- "peep stones" or pebbles, taken promiscuously from the brook or field, were placed in a hat or other situation excluded from the light, when some wizzard or witch (for these performances were not confined to either sex) applied their eyes, and ... declared they saw all the wonders of nature, including of course, ample stores of silver and gold." (THE REFLECTOR February 1, 1831)


In conclusion:

· Before Joseph Smith came up with the story of finding golden plates, both he and his father were seeking golden treasure hidden in the earth.

· Smith used a stone in a hat during his treasure seeking days; which is the same method he latter supposedly used to translate the Book of Mormon, and also to receive revelations from God.

· Obviously, Smith's credibility should be considered when investigating his claims:

The sad truth is, Joseph Smith's First Vision has all the markings of an incredible story.

*To read more about Smith's ability to see underground, please go to the 4th part in this series:

Endnotes:

[xxxviii] "His [Joseph Smith’s] greatest contribution I think is defining the nature of deity. He saw the Father and the Son. He spoke with them. They were beings of substance. They were in the form like a man. And they could express themselves and he could speak with them. …such a warm and reassuring thing to know the nature of God." (Statement by LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley in Newsweek Magazine article, “The Making of the Mormons,” October 17, 2005)

22

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[xxxix] “I will name some of the particular discoveries which through Divine Providence I was favored with in an interview with Joseph Smith, Jr. at the house of Peter Whitmer, in the town of Fayette, Seneca County, state of New York, in October, 1830. I called at P[eter] Whitmer’s house for the purpose of seeing Smith, and searching into the mystery of his system of religion, and had the privilege of conversing with him alone, several hours, and of investigating his writings, church records, &c. I improved near four and twenty hours in close application with Smith and his followers; he could give me no christian experience, but told me that an angel told him he must go to a certain place in the town of Manchester, Ontario County, where was a secret treasure concealed, which he must reveal to the human family. He went, and after the third or fourth time, which was repeated once a year, he obtained a parcel of plate resembling gold, on which were engraved what he did not understand, only by the aid of a glass, which he also obtained with the plate, by which means he was enabled to translate the characters on the plate into English.” (1830 interview with Joseph Smith by Peter Bauder. Recounted by Bauder in his book: The Kingdom and the Gospel of Jesus Christ, printed in 1834, pp. 36-38 /Early Mormon Documents, vol.1, compiled by Dan Vogel, Signature Books, 1996, pp. 16-17)


[xl] (THE PALMYRA FREEMAN Palmyra, NY, August, 1829) "In the fall of 1827, a person by the name of Joseph Smith, of Manchester, Ontario county, reported that he had been visited in a dream by the spirit of the Almighty, and informed that in a certain hill in that town, was deposited this Golden Bible, containing an ancient record of a divine nature and origin. After having been thrice thus visited, as he states, he proceeded to the spot, and after having penetrating "mother earth" a short distance, the Bible was found, together with a huge pair of spectacles! He had directed, however, not to let any mortal being examine them, "under no less penalty" than instant death!”

[xli] “In the month of June, 1827, Joseph Smith, Sen. related to me the following story: ‘That some years ago, a spirit had appeared to Joseph his son, in a vision, and informed him that in a certain place there was a record on plates of gold, and that he was the person that must obtain them, and this he must do in the following manner: On the 22nd of September, he must repair to the place where was deposited this manuscript, dressed in black clothes, and riding a black horse with a switch tail, and demand the book in a certain name, and after obtaining it, he must go directly away, and neither lay it down nor look behind him…” (Account of Willard Chase, spelled out in his 1833 affidavit, Joseph Smith’s New York Reputation Reexamined, Rodger I. Anderson, Signature Books, 1990, p. 121)

[xlii] “September 21, 22, 1823, Joseph Smith, Jr., second vision and shown plates of Book of Mormon.” (Appendix - Important Events in Church History - The Story of the Church
by Inez Smith Davis)

[xliii] “…for lo! yesternight stood before me in the wilderness of Manchester, the spirit, who, from the begining, has had in keeping all the treasures, hidden in the bowels of the earth,

And he said unto me, Joseph, thou son of Joseph, hold up thine head; do the crimes done in thy body fill thee with shame? -- hold up thine face and let the light of mine countenance shine upon thee -- thou, and all thy father's household, have served me faithfully, according to the best of their knowledge and abilities -- I am the spirit that walketh in darkness, and will shew thee great signs and wonders."

And I looked, and behold a little old man stood before me, clad, as I supposed, in Egyptian raiment, except his Indian blanket, and moccasins -- his beard of silver white, hung far below his knees. On his head was an old fashioned military half cocked hat, such as was worn in the days of the patriarch Moses -- his speech was sweeter than molasses, and his words were the reformed Egyptian. “ (July 7th 1830 Reflector — satire)

[xliv] "Moroni, the person who deposited the plates, from whence the Book of Mormon was translated, in a hill in Manchester, Ontario County, New York, being dead, and raised again therefrom, appeared unto me, and told me where they were; and gave me directions how to obtain them." (Smith 1838b, pp 42-43).

23

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[xlv] “When Joseph obtained the treasure, the priests, the deacons, and religionists of every grade, went hand in hand with the fortune-teller, and with every wicked person, to get it out of his hands, and, to accomplish this, a part of them came out and persecuted him.” Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. (London: Latter-day Saints Book Depot, 1854–86), 2:180–181.

[xlvi] "When I first looked upon him I was afraid, but the fear soon left me. He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi." (Times and Seasons Vol. III p. 749)

[xlvii] Alvin Smith (1798-1823), the oldest son in the Smith family died in November of 1823 of an overdose of calomel prescribed for a stomach ailment. On his deathbed Alvin, Joseph Smith’s brother encouraged the seventeen-year-old Joseph to "be a good boy, and do everything that lies in your power to obtain the Record," referring to the Book of Mormon plates (Smith, p. 87).

[xlviii] (Joseph Knight’s Recollection of Early Mormon History, LDS publication, BYU Studies, 1976, by Dean Jessee)

[xlix] (Joseph Smith, Jr., History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, ed. B. H. Roberts, 7 vols., 2nd ed. Revelation, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1964, 4:124–125).

[l] “It appears from all the circumstances that the Prophet took Josiah Stoal and Joseph Knight into his confidence, as to the time when he was to receive the plates of the Book of Mormon, and hence their presence at the Smith residence on the morning of the 22nd of September, 1827. Messrs. Knight and Stoal had business at Rochester, New York, and in leaving their home in Chenango county, so timed their journey that they arrived at the Smith residence on the 20th of September and remained there for a number of days; and were not only present when Joseph Smith obtained the records, but were there when he brought them to the house a day or two later.” (New Witnesses for God, B. H. Roberts, p.354)

[li] "Joseph Smith Jr. never repudiated the stones or denied their power to find treasure."(Rough Stone Rolling - 2006, Richard L. Bushman, p. 51)

[lii] “…In the month of October, 1825, I hired with an old gentleman by the name of Josiah Stoal, who lived in Chenango county, State of New York. He had heard something of a silver mine having been opened by the Spaniards in Harmony, Susquehanna county, State of Pennsylvania; and had, previous to my hiring to him, been digging, in order, if possible, to discover the mine. After I went to live with him, he took me, with the rest of his hands, to dig for the silver mine, at which I continued to work for nearly a month, without success in our undertaking, and finally I prevailed with the old gentleman to cease digging after it. Hence arose the very prevalent story of my having been a money-digger. ( Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 1, Chapter 1:56)

[liii] “Joe used to be usually their guide, putting into a hat a peculiar stone he had, through which he looked to decide where they should begin to dig." (Gleanings by the Way, 1842, p. 225)

[liv] See existing court document:

Same [meaning People]
vs
Joseph Smith
the Glass Looker
March 20, 1826

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[Las Vegas] ACCOUNT OF 1826 and 1830 TRIALS:

“Messrs. Editors -- In the sixth number of your paper I saw a notice of a sect of people called Mormonites; and thinking that a fuller history of their founder, Joseph Smith, jr., might be interesting to community, and particularly to your correspondent in Ohio, where, perhaps, the truth concerning him may be hard to come at, I will take the trouble to make a few remarks on the character of that infamous imposter. For several years preceding the appearance of his book, he was about the country in the character of a glass-looker: pretending, by means of a certain stone, or glass, which he put in a hat, to be able to discover lost goods, hidden treasures, mines of gold and silver, &c. Although he constantly failed in his pretensions, still he had his dupes who put implicit confidence in all his words. In this town, a wealthy farmer, named Josiah Stowell, together with others, spent large sums of money in digging for hidden money, which this Smith pretended he could see, and told them where to dig; but they never found their treasure. At length the public, becoming wearied with the base imposition which he was palming upon the credulity of the ignorant, for the purpose of sponging his living from their earnings, had him arrested as a disorderly person, tried and condemned before a court of Justice. But considering his youth, (he being then a minor,) and thinking he might reform his conduct, he was designedly allowed to escape. This was four or five years ago. From this time he absented himself from this place, returning only privately, and holding clandestine intercourse with his credulous dupes, for two or three years.

It was during this time, and probably by the help of others more skilled in the ways of iniquity than himself, that he formed the blasphemous design of forging a new revelation, which, backed by the terrors of an endless hell, and the testimony of base unprincipled men, he hoped would frighten the ignorant, and open a field of speculation for the vicious, so that he might secure to himself the scandalous honor of being the founder of a new sect, which might rival, perhaps, the Wilkinsonians, or the French Prophets of the 17th century.

During the past Summer he was frequently in this vicinity, and others of baser sort, as Cowdry, Whitmer, etc., holding meetings, and proselyting a few weak and silly women, and still more silly men, whose minds are shrouded in a mist of ignorance which no ray can penetrate, and whose credulity the utmost absurdity cannot equal.

In order to check the progress of delusion, and open the eyes and understandings of those who blindly followed him, and unmask the turpitude and villainy of those who knowingly abetted him in his infamous designs; he was again arraigned before a bar of Justice, during last Summer, to answer to a charge of misdemeanor. This trial led to an investigation of his character and conduct, which clearly evinced to the unprejudiced, whence the spirit came which dictated his inspirations. During the trial it was shown that the Book of Mormon was brought to light by the same magic power by which he pretended to tell fortunes, discover hidden treasures, &c. Oliver Cowdery, one of the three witnesses to the book, testified under oath, that said Smith found with the plates, from which he translated his book, two transparent stones, resembling glass, set in silver bows. That by looking through these, he was able to read in English, the reformed Egyptian characters, which were engraved on the plates.

So much for the gift and power of God, by which Smith says he translated his book.

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Two transparent stones, undoubtedly of the same properties, and the gift of the same spirit as the one in which he looked to find his neighbor's goods. It is reported, and probably true, that he commenced his juggling by stealing and hiding property belonging to his neighbors, and when inquiry was made, he would look in his stone, (his gift and power) and tell where it was. Josiah Stowell, a Mormonite, being sworn, testified that he positively knew that said Smith never had lied to, or deceived him, and did not believe he ever tried to deceive any body else. The following questions were then asked him, to which he made the replies annexed.


Did Smith ever tell you there was money hid in a certain glass which he mentioned? Yes. Did he tell you, you could find it by digging? Yes. Did you dig? Yes. Did you find any money? No. Did he not lie to you then, and deceive you? No! the money was there, but we did not get quite to it! How do you know it was there? Smith said it was! Addison Austin was next called upon, who testified, that at the very same time that Stowell was digging for money, he, Austin, was in company with said Smith alone, and asked him to tell him honestly whether he could see this money or not. Smith hesitated some time, but finally replied, "to be candid, between you and me, I cannot, any more than you or any body else; but any way to get a living." Here, then, we have his own confession, that he was a vile, dishonest impostor. As regards the testimony of Josiah Stowell, it needs no comment. He swears positively that Smith did not lie to him. So much for a Mormon witness. Paramount to this, in truth and consistency, was the testimony of Joseph Knight, another Mormonite. Newell Knight, son of the former, and also a Mormonite, testified, under oath, that he positively had a devil cast out of himself by the instrumentality of Joseph Smith, jr., and that he saw the devil after it was out, but could not tell how it looked!

Those who have joined them in this place, are, without exception, children who are frightened into the measure, or ignorant adults, whose love for the marvellous is equalled by nothing but their entire devotedness to the will of their leader; with a few who are as destitute of virtue and moral honesty, as they are of truth and consistency. As for his book, it is only the counterpart of his money-digging plan. Fearing the penalty of the law, and wishing still to amuse his followers, he fled for safety to the sanctuary of pretended religion. A. W. B. S. Bainbridge, Chen., co., March, 1831.” (EVANGELICAL MAGAZINE AND GOSPEL ADVOCATE, Vol II Utica, NY. April 9. 1831 No. 15)

Note: The "A. W. B." who signed this letter was Abraham W. Benton of South Bainbridge, Afton twp., Chenango Co., New York. Joseph Smith spoke of a “young man named Benton …who swore out the first warrant against me” (History of the Church Vol. 1, Chapter 10)

[lvi] State of New York v. Joseph Smith:

“Warrant issued upon written complaint upon oath of Peter G. Bridgeman, who informed that one Joseph Smith of Bainbridge was a disorderly person and an impostor.

Prisoner brought before Court March 20, 1826. Prisoner examined: says that he came from the town of Palmyra, and had been at the house of Josiah Stowel in Bainbridge most of time since; had small part of time been employed in looking for mines, but the major part had been employed by said Stowel on his farm, and going to school. That he had a certain stone which he had occasionally looked at to determine where hidden treasures in the bowels of the earth were; that he professed to tell in this manner where gold mines were a distance under ground, and had looked for Mr. Stowel several times, and had informed him where he could find these treasures, and Mr. Stowel had been engaged in digging for them. That at Palmyra he pretended to tell by looking at this stone where coined money was buried in Pennsylvania, and while at Palmyra had frequently ascertained in that way where lost property was of various kinds; that he had occasionally been in the habit of looking through this stone to find lost property for three years, but of late had pretty much given it up on account of its injuring his health, especially his eyes, making them sore; that he did not solicit business of this kind, and had always rather declined having anything to do with this business… “ “Costs: Warrant, 19c. Complaint upon oath, 25 1/2c. Seven witnesses, 87 1/2c. Recognisances, 25c. Mittimus, 19c. Recognisances of witnesses, 75c. Subpoena, 18c. - $2.68.”

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Oliver Cowdery wrote, “while Joseph Smith was in southern New York, some very officious person complained of him as a disorderly person and brought him before the authorities of the county…” (Messenger and Advocate in 1835)

[lvii] “But along toards fall Joseph and Oliver Cowdray and David Whitmore [Whitmer] and John Whitmore Came from Harmonyin Pennsylvany to my house on some Buisness. And some of the Vagabonds found theyware there and they made a Catspaw of a young fellow By the name of Docter Bentonin Chenengo County to sware out a warrent against Joseph for as they said pertending to see under ground. A little Clause they found in the york Laws against such things.The oficer Came to my house near knite [night] and took him. I harnesed my horses and we all went up to the villige But it was so late they Could not try him that nite andit was put of[f] till morning. I asked Joseph if [he] wanted Counsell he said he thot he should. I went that nite and saw Mr James Davison [Davidson] a man I was acquainted with. The next morning the gatherd a multitude of people that ware against him. Mr Davison said it looked like a squaley [squally] Day; he thot we had Better have John Read [Reid]a prety good speaker near by. I told him we would, so I imployed themBoth. So after a trial all Day jest at nite he was Dismissed. Then there was another oficer was Ridy [ready] and took him on the same Case Down to Broom County Below forth with. I hired Boath these Lawyers and took them Down home with me that nite. The next Day it Continued all Day till midnite. But they Could find no thing against him therefore he was Dismist., Joseph Smith’s account of this trial is found in HC 1:88–96” (Joseph Knight’s Recollection Joseph Smith’s Early History).

[lviii] he put forth his hand <and> took them up <but> when he lifted them from their place the thought flashed across his mind that there might be something more in the box that might would be a benefit to him in a pecuniary point of view in the excitement of the moment he laid the record down... The angel appeared to him and told him that he had not done as he was commanded in that he laid down the record… Joseph was then permited to open raise the stone again and there he beheld the plates the same as before he reached forth his hand to take them but was hurled back (First draft of Lucy Smith's History, LDS Church Archives/Early Mormon Documents, Vol. 1, p. 289-290)

[lix] “Certain ceremonies were always connected with these money-digging operations. Midnight was the favorite hour, a full moon was helpful, and Good Friday was the best date. Joe would sometimes stand by, directing the digging with a wand. The utmost silence was necessary to success. More than once, when the digging proved a failure, Joe explained to his associates that, just as the deposit was about to be reached, some one, tempted by the devil, spoke, causing the wished-for riches to disappear. Such an explanation of his failures was by no means original with Smith, the serious results of an untimely spoken word having been long associated with divers magic performances. Joe even tried on his New York victims the Pennsylvania device of requiring the sacrifice of a black sheep to overcome the evil spirit that guarded the treasure. William Stafford opportunely owned such an animal, and, as he puts it, ‘to gratify my curiosity,’ he let the Smiths have it. But some new ‘mistake in the process’ again resulted in disappointment. ‘This, I believe,’ remarks the contributor of the sheep,’ is the only time they ever made money-digging a profitable business.’(The Smiths ate the sheep)

These money-seeking enterprises were continued from 1820 to 1827 (the year of the delivery to Smith of the golden plates). This period covers the years in which Joe, in his autobiography, confesses that he ‘displayed the corruption of human nature.’ He explains that his father's family were poor, and that they worked where they could find employment to their taste; ‘sometimes we were at home and sometimes abroad.’ Some of these trips took them to Pennsylvania, and the stories of Joe's ‘gazing’ accomplishment may have reached Sidney Rigdon, and brought about their first interview. Susquehanna County was more thinly settled than the region around Palmyra, and Joe found persons who were ready to credit him with various ‘gifts’; and stories are still current there of his professed ability to perform miracles, to pray the frost away from a cornfield, and the like.” (quotes from Lippincott's Magazine, August, 1880 / narrative from the book: Mormon Origin, William Alexander Linn, Hackensack, n. j., 1901).

[lx] In her History, Joseph’s mother: Lucy Mack Smith speaks of the family drawing “magic circles,” “abrac” — which is short for (abracadabra), and “sooth saying.” Magic circles are used to form a space of magical protection from the spirit the person is invoking: “Let not the reader suppose that because I shall pursue another topic for a season that we stopt (sic) our labor and went at trying to win the faculty of Abrac drawing Magic circles or sooth saying to the neglect of all kinds of business.” (Rough Rolling Stone, Bushman, 2006, p.p. 50-51; quoted from, Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet and His Progenitors for Many Generations. Smith, Lucy Mack, Liverpool, England: S. W. Richards. 1853)

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[_Socrates]

Rich,

You should remove information about other religions on your site. It should be dedicated to the promotion of whatever your brand/denomination/sect of Christianity is, and to leave others' alone.

If an unexamined life is not worth living, what makes an unexamined religion worth believing?

[_Valorius]

With Rich's long excerpts, I would expect a follow-up post would quote the precise, offending passage that is an "attack" or that is inaccurate. That none does follow, convinces me that Rich's excerpts have no actual attacks of any religions, have no note-worthy attacks even of individuals who behave less than virtuously, and have no significant inaccuracies. Simon Belmont's explicit silence in this regard is, in a sense, equivalent to implicit approval. :)