Will the "Book of Mormon musical" bring even more exmormons out?

[_DrW]

The musical isn't really that damaging to LDS beliefs. In fact the musical appears to have been very kind to the Church. If it really wanted to belittle it's beliefs with hardcore evidence the members don't know about and can't defend very well, it would have brought up the Book of Abraham, polyandry, temple/Masonry connections, blacks and the priesthood, Book of Mormon historical problems, etc.

Have you seen the musical or listened to the cast recording?

A lot of what you might think they missed - they didn't miss.

I agree that the musical was not viscous toward the LDS Church - but damaging? I think so.

If I had not been BIC, and was not otherwise a member, and had seen the Book of Mormon musical (or even heard the songs from the cast recording), I would never set foot inside an LDS Church.

What I am waiting for the the "Scientology" musical. I want to see how they do the Thetans in the stage production.

[_The Nehor]

So, overall I guess I would agree with PP. It may take some time, and it may not come down as folks expect, but I think that the prospects for growth of the LDS Church in the US through converts has just taken a hit - possibly a big hit.

This prophecy comes out regularly and often whenever something goes public regarding the Church.

When one's once seriously held beliefs become the stuff of high quality comedy, perhaps it is time for a serious re-evaluation.

Does this apply just due to the caricature of the Mormons or do you also think the ridiculous African caricature means the Africans should give up everything they believe?

[_EAllusion]

"We sit by and watch the Barbarian, we tolerate him; in the long stretches of peace we are not afraid. We are tickled by his irreverence, his comic inversion of our old certitudes and our fixed creeds refreshes us; we laugh. But as we laugh, we are watched by large and awful faces from beyond: and on those faces there is no smile." (Hilaire Belloc, d. 1953)

I'm not sure what you are saying with this quote. I know what the quote is saying, but since this is not a play on bigoted imperial attitudes towards savages but rather a gnawing fear of those who would reject and mock traditional beliefs, what use do you have for it here? This song is really is in jest rather than hate disguised as jest, and society won't be thrown asunder for rejecting Mormonism. It already does. Mormonism doesn't represent the walled city. Mormons are just as much the barbarians inverting old certitudes and fixed creeds by challenging, and yes, mocking established belief structures. You should look up the religion some time. They may light their campfires and build their battering rams away from the atheists, but they still lay on dirt roads while the Pope sleeps comfortably in the Belloc's city.

So what are you saying? Laugh now, but someday the prophet's boot will all be in your throats? When we weren't looking, Mormonism somehow ascended to the mount of traditional beliefs at the foundation of our civilization? People who think Matt Stone and Trey Parker are funny when they joke about Mormon beliefs would have us all live like dogs if they got their way? Who knows?

[Guest]

So, overall I guess I would agree with PP. It may take some time, and it may not come down as folks expect, but I think that the prospects for growth of the LDS Church in the US through converts has just taken a hit - possibly a big hit.

This prophecy comes out regularly and often whenever something goes public regarding the Church.

When one's once seriously held beliefs become the stuff of high quality comedy, perhaps it is time for a serious re-evaluation.

Does this apply just due to the caricature of the Mormons or do you also think the ridiculous African caricature means the Africans should give up everything they believe?

First of all, I have not seen the production. I have seen a number of video clips from it and listened to the cast recording.

You have an excellent point about the portrayal of African culture in the musical.

I have spent some time in southern Africa, (Zimbabwe, South Africa, Kenya and Zambia - not Uganda), and a lot of what I experienced there is reflected in what I have seen and heard of the play.

So first of all, I would say that the caricatures of both the African and Mormon culture in the musical were not that ridiculous. In fact, they were spot on in many cases.

That is what makes the musical so good. In fact, IMHO, many of the lines for the missionaries are lines I have more or less heard from missionaries myself.

Again, if you have the case recording, just listen to "I Believe". There is not much that is over the top in these lyrics.

Would the Africans who hold to superstitions and believe silly things about such issues as AIDS and other health related concerns be better off with more accurate and scientifically sound information and the resultant beliefs? You bet.

Would such information serve to change the culture to a more fact based worldview and help avoid practices such as genital mutilation of females, sexual promiscuity, and unprotected sex outside of wedlock? Hopefully.

As to Mormon culture; it may simply not be salvageable. ;-).

[_Buffalo]

Funny, I don't hear apologists complaining about other portrayals of Africans in modern culture. Why the sudden interest?

[_DrW]

Funny, I don't hear apologists complaining about other portrayals of Africans in modern culture. Why the sudden interest?

Is your question for The Nehor or DrW?

(Hard to tell because of near simultaneous posts.)

[_Some Schmo]

PP, I'm not sure that this musical will get many more mos thinking than the Internet already has. I suppose the question is whether or not the musical will reach significantly more LDS than the 'net has.

It's a nice thought, though.

What I find interesting about the Book of Mormon musical phenomenon is that it sets the Mormon nonsense to music, and pretty good music at that.

Better yet, they decided to give this music away for a time (Really - there were a few days when the cast recording download was free - and now I think a cast recording download costs all of $1.99 or something).

A lot of people who would never read about Mormonism on the internet, and would never see the musical on stage, will be listening to the songs.

Songs like "I Believe" from the cast recording (which is a great overview of some of Mormonism's most nonsensical beliefs) will become classic show tunes (and we all know the result of too much time spent listening to show tunes).

So, overall I guess I would agree with PP. It may take some time, and it may not come down as folks expect, but I think that the prospects for growth of the LDS Church in the US through converts has just taken a hit - possibly a big hit.

And I would not be surprised if the Book of Mormon musical turned out to be the last straw for some (perhaps many) of the the millions of Mormons who actually do know the truth about the LDS Church and are becoming more and more embarrassed by its teachings and actions in the world.

I think that many Church members are becoming less willing to be identified with these beliefs, regardless of family "traditions" and peer pressure.

When one's once seriously held beliefs become the stuff of high quality comedy, perhaps it is time for a serious re-evaluation.

Well, you make some good points and I'd love for you to be completely right, so...

Here's hoping!

I guess I'm only skeptical that the non-Internet, pro-Broadway show tunes demographic is that large because it's hard to imagine people going to a South Park creators' version of the religion if they avoid reading about the church on the net. I have no doubt that some will unknowingly be exposed to the music; I just don't think it will be that large a number.

But like I said, I hope you're right. The more members that really stop and think about the religion and get out while the gettin's good, the better off the world will be.

[_Buffalo]

Funny, I don't hear apologists complaining about other portrayals of Africans in modern culture. Why the sudden interest?

Is your question for The Nehor or DrW?

(Hard to tell because of near simultaneous posts.)

Either.

[_schreech]

“I think the night would be a disappointment if we didn't thank our co-writer who passed away, mr. joseph smith, the founder of the Mormon religion…he couldn’t be here tonight, but….YOU DID IT JOSEPH, YOU GOT THE TONY!”

[Guest]

Funny, I don't hear apologists complaining about other portrayals of Africans in modern culture. Why the sudden interest?

My "sudden interest" in African culture as portrayed in the Book of Mormon musical was simply to respond to The Nehor.

As a point of clarification, I would say that I do have a great respect for indigenous cultures and have learned some good science from working with some of its practitioners. In Central America (not Africa) for example, I helped fund and participated directly in an ethnobotanical products development project. This work (with a local company called Farmaya) resulted in the development of two phyto-pharmaceuticals that are now used in Argentina and Guatemala. Locals who wish to use these natural products can control vaginal candida for about a nickel* a day and can help control maturity onset diabetes for just over a dime* a day.
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* (1986 dollars)