Mormons are ashamed of their own beliefs

[_Buffalo]

"Less valiant in the pre-mortal existence" was taught openly over the pulpit and was the official doctrinal reason. It was treated as fact.

[_Yahoo Bot]

The ban was instituted so as to appeal to southern votes for statehood.

[_jon]

That's right Pahoran, "there was no official doctrinal reason" for banning blacks from the Priesthood. And yet the Church still did...

[_Buffalo]

That's right Pahoran, "there was no official doctrinal reason" for banning blacks from the Priesthood. And yet the Church still did...

That's almost worse than the actual doctrinal reason. Denying a big section of the human race access to the temple and the priesthood, all without any reason?

[_schreech]

Pahoran,

What was the official, doctrinal reason for banning people of African descent from the Priesthood?
(Please provide links and references to avoid CFR)

"Those who were less valiant in the pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God and his murder of Abel being a black skin.... Noah's son Ham married Egyptus, a descendant of Cain, thus preserving the negro lineage through the flood....The negroes are not equal with other races when the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow therefrom, but this inequality is not of man's origin. It is the Lord's doing, based on His eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the lack of spiritual valiance of those concerned in their first estate."

"It is one of the most abominable, cruel and unreasonable doctrines that Satan ever introduced into this world to lay at the door of innocent, helpless babies, a sin which they never committed. Jesus Christ paid the debt for "original sin," or the bringing of death into the world. No other soul ever born, or that may yet be born, will be charged with any taint because of Adam's Fall. Jesus Christ came and paid that debt, and the sprinkling or touching the body of a baby with water to cleanse it from original sin, and to condemn it to "limbo," and deny it the mercies of the Lord if it is not so touched or sprinkled, comes close to being an unforgivable sin. Spirits who have received the privilege of coming to this earth had their agency in that spirit world. Some of them failed because of rebellion and were cast out with Lucifer. Others were not valiant and therefore came into this world under some restriction, and the Lord deals with them according to their works."

"There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantage. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less.... There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men receive rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits."

[_jon]

"Perhaps deer or tapirs pulled wheelless chariots. We know, for instance, that the American Indian travois (a kind of sled) was pulled, not only by horses, but also by dogs. Maybe King Lamoni used a deer or tapir-drawn travois to cart his supplies while traveling. The mass Nephite movement to Zarahemla certainly suggests that chariots were used to carry supplies rather than soldiers." Michael R. Ash

Sometimes it's not just their beliefs that are worthy of shame...

[_Pahoran]

Pahoran,

What was the official, doctrinal reason for banning people of African descent from the Priesthood?
(Please provide links and references to avoid CFR)

"Those who were less valiant in the pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God and his murder of Abel being a black skin.... Noah's son Ham married Egyptus, a descendant of Cain, thus preserving the negro lineage through the flood....The negroes are not equal with other races when the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow therefrom, but this inequality is not of man's origin. It is the Lord's doing, based on His eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the lack of spiritual valiance of those concerned in their first estate."

"It is one of the most abominable, cruel and unreasonable doctrines that Satan ever introduced into this world to lay at the door of innocent, helpless babies, a sin which they never committed. Jesus Christ paid the debt for "original sin," or the bringing of death into the world. No other soul ever born, or that may yet be born, will be charged with any taint because of Adam's Fall. Jesus Christ came and paid that debt, and the sprinkling or touching the body of a baby with water to cleanse it from original sin, and to condemn it to "limbo," and deny it the mercies of the Lord if it is not so touched or sprinkled, comes close to being an unforgivable sin. Spirits who have received the privilege of coming to this earth had their agency in that spirit world. Some of them failed because of rebellion and were cast out with Lucifer. Others were not valiant and therefore came into this world under some restriction, and the Lord deals with them according to their works."

"There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantage. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less.... There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men receive rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits."

And what is the source for that cut-and-paste?

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Pahoran]

"Less valiant in the pre-mortal existence" was taught openly over the pulpit and was the official doctrinal reason. It was treated as fact.

In which case, given that everything "taught openly over the pulpit" of General Conference has been recorded and is available on line, it should be trivially easy to support your assertion.

That's right; this is a CFR.

I'm asking for an actual reference to an actual statement. Don't just try to duck out by pointing to an entire large body of material and then run away.

For example, here is how a reference should be provided:

buffalo
1) (n) A large hairy mammal.
2) (n) A city in western New York.
3) (n, adj) A type of hot wing sauce.
4) (v) To intimidate, as by a display of confidence or authority.

See The Urban Dictionary.

That's how it's done.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_why me]

This wouldn't be Why Me writing faith promotion fiction would it...?
A reference...?
A link...?
A date, time and place...?

Bump for CFR because Why Me failed to respond to harmony's CFR

Can't do it. Not because I can't but because I have my reasons not to.

[_why me]

It's worth is not one would expect from such a church with a small membership, where many of these members are not so rich.

I think any religion that asks for over 10% of it's members incomes would amass a lot of money and wealth.

Not really. Many of the members are poor. Go and see how the russian members live. They are not exactly rolling in dough. Or for that matter the members in Romania or in latin america. There are many poor butt Mormons running around. The church is a world wide church and buildings are built and temples are built and missionaries are supported etc. It takes dough to run a church these days. Just ask the board of directos of the crystal cathedral. I remember them rolling in money and now...dead as a door nail.