A Poster's Weak Faith Damaged by another Poster?

[_Pahoran]

Boy Pahoran you sure like to call people liars don't you. But I think you are the one who has not got it straight. LDST did not say you drove him out of the church. He did not say you weakened his faith. All he said is that you ( and I assume people like you) strengthened his resolve. So who is lying here?

He is.

You see, I've been interacting with him on the internet for some time. He was as apostate as Philastus Hurlbut the first time I saw him post.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Pahoran]

Blah, blah, redirect, retreat, blah, blindly defend joe at all costs, blah, insult to cover for joes infidelities and to make up for your own insecurities, blah, etc., ...so predictable...

What's "so predictable" is that the schreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech has no cogent response, so you resort to removing and then misrepresenting my argument.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Pahoran]

CFR, please, that "Most of Joseph's early wives were already married to other men." Please note that, in normal English usage, "Most" means "more than half."

Note also that "early," given his death in 1844, would need to be before Nauvoo.

And while you are at it, please provide references to reliable sources that demonstrate that any of the known sealings were marriages in fact.

Here you go, have fun:

http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Loneliness ... 156085085X

So I ask for a reference, and you point me towards an entire large book.

Pity the book does not support your brazenly counterfactual assertion.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Buffalo]

Here you go, have fun:

http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Loneliness ... 156085085X

So I ask for a reference, and you point me towards an entire large book.

Pity the book does not support your brazenly counterfactual assertion.

Regards,
Pahoran

Pahoran, eager to throw out another accusation of lying, purgers himself again. </mopologeticstyle>

If you don't have the attention span to read it, you can hear it straight from the author's mouth in this podcast interview:

http://mormonstories.org/podcast/Mormon ... tonPt1.mp3

http://mormonstories.org/podcast/Mormon ... tonPt2.mp3

http://mormonstories.org/podcast/Mormon ... tonPt3.mp3

Compton says that something like 8 of the first 10 or 12 polygamous wives of Joseph are already married to other men.

[_Buffalo]

Your posts are more likely to lead someone away from the church than they are to lead someone into the church.

In your opinion.

An opinion that just happens to be serviceable to your accusation.

An accusation based entirely upon a falsehood.

Hey, if you think acting like a complete douchebag on the internet 24/7 in defense of the church is going to do good for your cause, by all means, keep at it :D

[_Yahoo Bot]

I see your newest obsession is with issues of homosexuality. So let's list em out shall we:

You are obsessed about:

1: Anonymous posters that are vile hypocrites. This one has bugged you for quite some time.

2: You have now added to your repertoire calling persons degenerates apostates. Why the new slur?

3: Anyone who leaves the Church who was married must somehow be gay.

Got it! What fun.

Untrue.

I analogized a spouse abrogating a religious marriage by saying he's no longer interested in marriage to a spouse abrogating any kind of marriage contract by saying that he's gay. In either scenario the expectations and premises of the wife are based upon either a changed mind or undisclosed issues which should have been disclosed. The analogies seem very similar. However, in the former I don't advocate a marital separation. In the latter I might accept it, only because the husband and wife should not torture each other with natures that cannot change.

But to say that I'm accusing apostates of being gay is just bashing me. You're no better than Eric, who accused me of being a child molester.

You often say that I'm "bugged" by you or the things you say. I try to always to respond by saying that I'm not "bugged." But rank hypocrisy is a moral weakness and undercuts anybody's argument, whether it be yours or Mitt Romney's. When that rank and foul stench of hypocrisy steams up from the sewers of hidden and undisclosed apostasy, I'll just note it and move on. I'm not offended or upset.

[_Themis]

[Most of Joseph's early wives were already married to other men, so the children would have been publicly assumed to have been sired by the legal husband.

There is still at least one that they think could be Joseph's. The historical evidence supports the idea, and for apologists that admit he had sex, it shouldn't be a big deal for them.

Perhaps by the time Joseph abandoned that practice he had mastered the birth control methods that were around in his day.

Joseph I think in many cases was not having that much sex with many of them, and probably none with some. He was a busy man as well. Plus he was accused of some of his wives having abortions, so that would easily explain why none of the wives with no other husband had no living children.

[_Jason Bourne]

Untrue.

I analogized a spouse abrogating a religious marriage by saying he's no longer interested in marriage to a spouse abrogating any kind of marriage contract by saying that he's gay. In either scenario the expectations and premises of the wife are based upon either a changed mind or undisclosed issues which should have been disclosed. The analogies seem very similar. However, in the former I don't advocate a marital separation. In the latter I might accept it, only because the husband and wife should not torture each other with natures that cannot change.

Well I dunno. You seem to be tossing out the gay accusation quite a lot. But your explanation is fine and I thank you.

But to say that I'm accusing apostates of being gay is just bashing me. You're no better than Eric, who accused me of being a child molester.

Oh come on Mr. Bot! Lighten up. I was funnin with you a bit. Now where is your sense of humor.

You often say that I'm "bugged" by you or the things you say.

I do? Hmmmm maybe I do.

I try to always to respond by saying that I'm not "bugged."

Ok. But your obsessing over anonymity seems like, well, that it really bugs you. You are really a one note wonder on this topic. It must bother you.

But rank hypocrisy is a moral weakness and undercuts anybody's argument, whether it be yours or Mitt Romney's. When that rank and foul stench of hypocrisy steams up from the sewers of hidden and undisclosed apostasy, I'll just note it and move on. I'm not offended or upset.

Ahh you wax so eloquent. I would love to see you in live action in what you do for work.

And let us note again your own false accusation on this very thread about LDST's claims. This could be close to a pot and kettle thing you know.

But hey, I have told you I claim the vile hypocrite title. It is sad somewhat. At times I think I should just leave the Church. But why surrender to Monolithic Mormons such as you and Pahoran? It would be nice to have a more open and friendly setting where one can discuss concerns, oppose policy and such with our fear or threat of expulsion either socially or institutionally. Too bad the Church does not foster that.


But I make my way best I can. I am active in the Church in spite of my concerns. I do it for many reasons. For my wife and family. And really for me personally as well. You see while the idea of one true church is gone for me I do like religion. Some may think me foolish for it but I like it. It brings a lot into my life. I think Christianity bests reflects the religion I want and the LDS Church still works for that in spite of my complaints. And there is much I really like about it as well.

I look to other faiths as well and have not found one that works for me as well. So I continue. I have already told you that I have discussed my issues with bishops, prior stake president now area authority and I have asked my current SP to go to lunch with me sometime so we can chat about things like this. And my wife knows my concerns along with some close LDS friends. Who else needs to know? Should I publish it in testimony meetings?


I also think you will find most of my complaints here have softened some and even diminished. I think my posting is less and less. But hey if you find something you think is evil let me know.

In the mean time work on that sense of humor will you? Take care.

[_Baker]

I never understand the criticism of those who continue activity despite disbelief, especially from members of a church that actively pursues non-attending members and invites them to replant the seed of faith through participation in church activities.

What better way for a Bro. Bourne to regain his testimony than through active participation in the church?

[_Yoda]

But to say that I'm accusing apostates of being gay is just bashing me.

Stop accusing apostates of being gay, and the supposed "bashing" will cease. You have referred to Cam as being gay on multiple threads..several that I have had to move to Telestial. That, combined with your avid referral on more than one occasion to an ex-member being gay on this thread, can easily lead to someone thinking that a person's gay/straight status may be a bit of an obsession for you.

You're no better than Eric, who accused me of being a child molester.

Being a child molester is illegal. Being gay isn't.