Should the Church apologise for Mountain Meadows Massacre?

[_Daniel Peterson]

I have a hard time believing that something like this could have happened in the Utah territory at that time without Young's knowledge,

And yet, however hard a time you may have with that idea, it seems to be true.

Ior that the Mormons who carried out the killings did not think that they were acting on his authority.

Rather a different matter, but still not particularly clear from the actual historical evidence.

Reguardless, the killers did what they did because they were being obediant to their priesthood leaders.

Who were their militia and government leaders.

The church took the goods and children and attempted to covered up the whole affair.

Awaiting the next book.

The church and its doctrines played a significant role in the MMM whether Young ordered it or not.

There is little or no evidence that the doctrines of Mormonism played any role in the events leading up to and including the massacre, and precious little that the Church, as such, did.

[_Morley]

If local officers of the Communist Party of the USA had raised a small army that murdered Kennedy and 119 other people, however, I'd assume that you might be more inclined to hold the organization responsible.

I would. But that's not comparable to what happened in Utah.

Please elaborate.


Reposting the above for Daniel.

[_Buffalo]

I have a hard time believing that something like this could have happened in the Utah territory at that time without Young's knowledge, or that the Mormons who carried out the killings did not think that they were acting on his authority. I suppose that it is possible that Grant, or Klingonsmith, was acting on their own and lied to the people that these were "orders from headquarters" (Young).

Reguardless, the killers did what they did because they were being obediant to their priesthood leaders. The church took the goods and children and attempted to covered up the whole affair. The church and its doctrines played a significant role in the MMM whether Young ordered it or not.

That's the theory all right. Not proven: Young knew in advance. Brooks said he didn't. Not proven: The perps thought they had authority. Otherwise, why did they send Haslem for guidance? Proven: The perps acted rashly.

Proven: the church covered it up.

[_Buffalo]

The church took the goods and children and attempted to covered up the whole affair.

Awaiting the next book.

Is this supposed to be a meaningful response?

[_Yoda]

Descendants of the Baker-Fancher wagon train have fought for years to memorialise their ancestors and to wrestle an apology from leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Those words have not come. (from The Daily Mail online newspaper article about the new memorial)

Please feel free to provide supporting references for your vote

When the memorial was built, I was under the impression that the Church gave a very heart-felt apology regarding the loss of those who suffered. I don't think that the Church took complete blame, but I was under the impression that they did give a nice tribute to the families, and funded the memorial.

True, or untrue?

And, does someone have on file exactly what WAS said by the Church when the memorial was established?

[_Daniel Peterson]

Proven: the church covered it up.

Is this supposed to be a meaningful response?

Yes, it is.

History, as I understand it, is an empirical discipline.

When the facts are presented in the forthcoming book, I think they will show your confidence to have been misplaced.

In the meantime, this is helpful:

http://www.fairwiki.org/Mountain_Meadow ... rosecution

And you might want to get a copy of Professor Thomas Alexander's presentation on the topic, given up in Logan some years back.

[_Buffalo]

Proven: the church covered it up.

Is this supposed to be a meaningful response?

Yes, it is.

History, as I understand it, is an empirical discipline.

When the facts are presented in the forthcoming book, I think they will show your confidence to have been misplaced.

In the meantime, this is helpful:

http://www.fairwiki.org/Mountain_Meadow ... rosecution

And you might want to get a copy of Professor Thomas Alexander's presentation on the topic, given up in Logan some years back.

Argumentum ad posterus libri

[_Fifth Columnist]

the Parowan stake headed by William Dame (also the district militia commander) and the Cedar City stake headed by Isaac Haight (also a militia major and mayor of Cedar City)

Are you demanding apologies from the municipal government of Cedar City and from the Utah Highway Patrol and/or the Utah National Guard?

The nexus between the Church and MMM is very strong and established. Same for the government of Cedar City, although back then it was the same thing as the church (Utah was a theocracy). So yes, both of them should apologize, but especially the Church.

Unlike the Church, the connection between the UHP and the National Guard and the Mormon militia seems a bit tenuous. I'll leave it to you to establish the required nexus between the parties.

[_bcspace]

As with all MMM threads so far, there seems to be no evidence that "the Church" or Brigham Young were involved in it or even responsible for it; just hopeful and vulture-like speculation.

[_Buffalo]

As with all MMM threads so far, there seems to be no evidence that "the Church" or Brigham Young were involved in it or even responsible for it; just hopeful and vulture-like speculation.

They covered it up, which makes them, at minimum, accessories to mass murder.