Casey Anthony Trial--it's ON

[_Jersey Girl]

Possibly. However, there simply wasn't enough evidence to convict.

Why wasn't there enough evidence to convict of manslaughter or child abuse?

I think the thing is that the evidence was all circumstantial and nothing provided a direct link to Casey.

I'm wondering why she wasn't charged with something for not reporting the death for 31 days and then only because she was forced to by her mother?

I think there could be at least a negligence charge in there some place, but I don't know the law well enough to be sure.

[_Jersey Girl]

I wanted to bring something else forward to this current page of the thread.

According to law, if Judge Perry applies the penalties for the 4 counts of lying to police officers, in such a way (I think they called it "box car"), and gives Casey credit for time served, she could be out of jail by the weekend.

If so, speculate with me about these questions:

1. Where will Casey immediately go?
2. Do you think that an angry member of the public will attempt to
kill Casey?

[_beastie]

beastie, if you believe the testimony of River Crews/Krystal Holloway regarding her having an affair with George, do you also accept her testimony that George stated "it was an accident that snowballed out of control"? If not, how do you separate the two as one truth/one lie?

Yet at the same time River said that George choked Casey and demanded she tell him what happened. Did the prosecution make enough of that contradiction? I didn’t see it all, so I don’t know, but I think that contradiction should have been emphasized.

I actually saw River being interviewed by Vinnie Politan immediately following her testimony. She said that she did not believe George knew what happened. During that interview, she clarified that she believed George meant that he was speculating that it was an accident. She emphasized she did not believe George had any involvement or direct knowledge about what the accident was.

Her testimony on stand, which I did see, was very confusing. She seemed to tell the defense that George KNEW, and then turned around and told the prosecution that he was SPECULATING.

I do fault the prosecution for not making that clear enough. Vinnie Politan was able to make it clear, they should have, too.

Of course George hoped it was an accident that snowballed out of control. What human being, even one who lies about adultery, wants to believe their child is capable of killing her own child?????

I think Casey’s parents know good and well that there is only one person who knows what happened to Caylee, and she ain’t talking. Or, if she talks, she can’t be believed.

I think the thing is that the evidence was all circumstantial and nothing provided a direct link to Casey.

I'm wondering why she wasn't charged with something for not reporting the death for 31 days and then only because she was forced to by her mother?

I think there could be at least a negligence charge in there some place, but I don't know the law well enough to be sure.

I think that the population at large has been polluted by shows like CSI, which imply that there will always been clear forensic evidence pointing to guilt. It is my impression that most cases are mainly circumstantial in nature.

1. Where will Casey immediately go?

I think she’ll try to leave the country for a while.

2. Do you think that an angry member of the public will attempt to
kill Casey?

No. I don’t remember anyone trying to kill OJ, and people were just as upset then.

[_beastie]

You don't really need religion to believe in spiritual things like this. I've been reading a lot of NDE books and for me they're bringing a lot of peace. Not one NDE that I know of came back and said he now knew he had to join the Mormon Church. Arvin Gibson explains this as protecting agency. I don't know a lot of things, but reaffirming my belief that we truly are spiritual beings having a human experience has been very helpful for me.

My aunt just died last week. Her diabetes had taken its toll on her. She's not LDS. She almost died once before that a few months ago. When she came back she said she would never be scared of dying again. She knew she was headed for a better place.

I'm not saying we shouldn't seek justice. We try. But as was shown with this case, we just couldn't do it. The fact that there was not a conviction for manslaughter or child abuse demonstrates to me that justice must not be met very often.

Yes, you're right, and I did still believe or hope for some sort of afterlife for a while after losing all faith in religion. But I no longer believe in any sort of afterlife.

[_beastie]

I will say that, given the circumstantial nature of the case, the prosecution should not have gone for the death penalty. I think that probably made the jury very cautious, to the point where they didn't just consider REASONABLE doubt, but ANY doubt that could be constructed, no matter the lack of evidence.

The alternate juror really seemed to believe George did it. in my opinion, that is not a reasonable doubt. That's a wild and crazy doubt.

I will also say that it's obvious the jury didn't really study all the information. Ten hours wasn't enough time. They made up their minds long ago. It sounds like they made up their mind during opening arguments.

[_beastie]

I think this is a good article about the case.

http://clearwater.patch.com/articles/ca ... -the-proof

The author, a lawyer, says:

However, I believe ultimately this case comes down to a simple and classic phrase in the criminal law system:

Better to let a guilty woman free than to convict an innocent woman.

When we move past public outrage and the pretrial conviction by major media, this case is really a positive testament to the criminal justice system.

I think of the burden this way: Anthony started the trial with the presumption of innocence despite public opinion. The state had the burden of taking the jury from presuming Anthony was innocent to believing, beyond moral certainty, that she was guilty. Anthony only had to keep the state from reaching the “beyond” moral certainty point.

Although it's an unfair analogy, the guilty temperature started at zero degrees, the state had to get the temperature to boiling, and the defense simply had to keep the water from reaching the boiling point.

The jury never said Anthony was innocent. They simply said that they could not find her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. They may still believe she is guilty, just not boiling with guilt.

This tends to correlate with what the first juror to speak out said: they were sick to their stomachs after voting to acquit Casey.

I believe Casey Anthony killed her daughter in cold blood. I believe she chloroformed her and then placed duct tape over her mouth to be certain. I believe she then wrapped her daughter up like trash and threw her away in the swamp. I believe she lied and lied, the way she had been doing for years, for one simple reason: to cover her guilt.

But if the jurors really believed that the prosecution could not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, I am glad that they voted not guilty.

A sociopath doesn't change his or her stripes. Some sociopaths never engage in criminal behavior, but those that do, like Casey, tend to do so repeatedly throughout their lives. One day she will stand before a jury again.

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

[_beastie]

HLN is reporting that Casey will stay with an unnamed relative in Houston.

[_ajax18]

I will say that, given the circumstantial nature of the case, the prosecution should not have gone for the death penalty.

Yeah, why did the prosecution do that? I don't view death penalty in the same orthodox Mormon fashion I was raised. I'm not sure I even believe it's ever appropriate. Wouldn't it be pretty hard to convince a jury to execute a pretty young woman?

The alternate juror really seemed to believe George did it. in my opinion, that is not a reasonable doubt. That's a wild and crazy doubt.

I agree. That's pretty twisted.

[_beastie]

Yeah, why did the prosecution do that? I don't view death penalty in the same orthodox Mormon fashion I was raised. I'm not sure I even believe it's ever appropriate. Wouldn't it be pretty hard to convince a jury to execute a pretty young woman?

Yes, it definitely would.

I heard Ashton being interviewed, and he simply said that, with the evidence they had, they felt first degree was appropriate.

I know that before they found Caylee's body, they had said the death penalty was not on the table. Once they found the body and found the duct tape wrapped around her skull, they put it back on the table. Simply put, I think the prosecution really believed the duct tape was the murder weapon, and indicated horrific premeditation. I happen to agree.

I agree. That's pretty twisted.

I don't take that alternate juror very seriously. At one point he claimed to be able to speak for all the jurors when he said it was a horrific accident. Really? He can speak for all the jurors despite the fact that he didn't deliberate with them and was never allowed to discuss the case with them? That guy just wanted attention.

The real juror who spoke out seemed to indicate something entirely different. She said they weren't saying they thought Casey was innocent, but rather that the prosecution didn't offer the needed evidence. They were stuck on not knowing the cause of death. But that's not insurmountable for juries in general. Look at Scott Peterson.

As I said earlier, if Casey were fat and ugly, or if she were a minority, she'd probably be on death row right now. Just my jaded opinion.

[_Jersey Girl]

HLN is reporting that Casey will stay with an unnamed relative in Houston.

This goes to my previous question of where she might go. Wherever she goes, she will not be able to live in isolation. If Houston, the media will follow her to the relative's home, which is a shame for the relative.

I read an online article today that criticized Nancy Grace's recent commentary on the case, "Somewhere out there, the devil is dancing tonight".

I honestly do think Nancy Grace is partially responsible for the frenzied mob mentality that we see right now and I believe she needs to tone it down.

I have no way of knowing whether Casey Anthony is guilty or not guilty. As much as I would have liked to see Caylee's story told, I accept that will never know the truth.

I heard that after the verdict was said, the protestors outside of the court house yelled many chants including "Appeal! Appeal!"

WTF?????

How ignorant are some people? I say they are ignorant enough to form a mob and seek vigilante justice which I am completely and utterly against. According to the Anthony's family attorney, the family has already received death threats.

This is a sickening testament to the worst parts of human nature.