Stake Pres coming to visit

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_Buffalo
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Re: Stake Pres coming to visit

Post by _Buffalo »

stemelbow wrote:
Buffalo wrote:The success of Mormonism is due to the hard work of its members. Odds are, if you work hard long enough, you'll be successful in some way.


What a delightful little anecdote. I'll share it with my kids if you don't mind.

"hey, stem-kids, you may appear to have not much to hope for and all that, but Buffalo says "if you work hard long enough, you'll be successful in some way". Yeah, yeah, in some way is a bit of an ambiguity that might prove to be the caveat that ruins ya, but keep it in mind. Odds stacked against ya can be toppled. Now, go get 'em."

sounds like a good pep pep talk to me.


Pep pep!
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Equality
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Re: Stake Pres coming to visit

Post by _Equality »

In August, 1829, we began to preach the gospel of Christ. The following six elders had then been ordained: Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowder, Peter Whitmer, Samuel H. Smith, Hyrum Smith and myself . . . We preached, baptized and confirmed members into the Church of Christ, from August, 1829, until April 6th, 1830, being eight months in which time we had proceeded rightly; the offices in the church being Elders, Priests and Teachers . . . We were as fully organized—spiritually--before April 6th as were on that day . . . . In no place in the word of God does it say that an Elder is after the order of Melchisedec, or after the order of the Melchisedec Priesthood. An Elder is after the order of Christ. This matter of “priesthood,” since the days of Sydney Rigdon, has been the great hobby and stumbling-block of the Latter Day Saints. Priesthood means authority; and authority is the word we should use. I do not think the word priesthood is mentioned in the New Covenant of the Book of Mormon. Authority is the word we used for the first two years in the church—until Sydney Rigdon's days in Ohio.

This matter of the two orders of priesthood in the Church of Christ, and lineal priesthood of the old law being in the church, all originated in the mind of Sydney Rigdon. He explained these things to Brother Joseph in his way, out of the old Scriptures, and got Brother Joseph to inquire, etc. He would inquire, and as mouthpiece speak out the revelations just as they had it fixed up in their hearts. As I have said before, acording to the desires of the heart, the inspiration comes, but it may be the spirit of man that gives it . . . This is the way the High Priests and the “priesthood” as you have it, was introduced into the Church of Christ almost two years after its beginning—and after we had baptized and confirmed about two thousand souls into the church. (David Whitmer, An Address To All Believers in Christ: By a Witness To The Divine Authenticity Of The Book of Mormon, pp. 32, 33, 64)


But, hey, what does David Whitmer know? He's not a reliable witness to things that went on in the early church, is he, my true-believing Mormon friends? Let's see, Oliver Cowdery's account differs from the church's late-invented account, David Whitmer's account differs from the church's late-invented account, and the Book of Commandments which the church published in 1831, and which purported to contain ALL of the revelations given to Joseph Smith up until that time in chronological order, contained neither the alleged May 15, 1829 visit of John the Baptist nor the never-dated alleged visit of Peter, James, and John. There are no records of ANYONE in the church mentioning the alleged Melchizidek Priesthood restoration in the years immediately following the alleged event. NONE. It's not just Joseph Smith being forgetful and sloppy. You've got dozens of early church missionary journals from people who WERE meticulous record-keepers, NONE of which mentions a pre-1830 angelic/resurrected-being priesthood restoration.

Dr. Peterson is correct that burden of proof is on the one making the claim. Here, the LDS Church makes the claim that the priesthood was restored in miraculous fashion "sometime" in 1829. The available contemporaneous evidence ALL suggests otherwise. The ONLY evidence to support it are conflicting, self-serving testimonials given years after the fact.

As an aside, why doesn't the church know the date? Couldn't Tommy Monson just ask Jesus today when the 15 have their weekly board meeting with him?
Last edited by Guest on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain
"The LDS church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo
_stemelbow
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Re: Stake Pres coming to visit

Post by _stemelbow »

Z,

why can't you just invite us all over at the same time? If I'm close and available I'll stop by and see if I can make it awkward or even embarrassing for your SP. Or if that's not to your liking I can stop by and assume the parallel SP position within some organized, albeit probably make believe, pagan religion. We'll go toe to toe for Z and his family.

Maybe that'll help ya with your authority fears. let me know how I can help.
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
_zeezrom
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Re: Stake Pres coming to visit

Post by _zeezrom »

stemelbow wrote:Z,

why can't you just invite us all over at the same time? If I'm close and available I'll stop by and see if I can make it awkward or even embarrassing for your SP. Or if that's not to your liking I can stop by and assume the parallel SP position within some organized, albeit probably make believe, pagan religion. We'll go toe to toe for Z and his family.

Maybe that'll help ya with your authority fears. let me know how I can help.

Stem,

I invited you to lunch at the Tibet restaurant but you declined.

DCP, Sorry we missed each other! July 1 came and went and I remembered after. Sorry!
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_stemelbow
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Re: Stake Pres coming to visit

Post by _stemelbow »

zeezrom wrote:Stem,

I invited you to lunch at the Tibet restaurant but you declined.


What? An invite to an event an hour or so before said event and by declining (because I was busy and not because I have something personal against ya) I find myself in your doghouse? Ouchers. I hope I don't need to tip toe too lightly.

Well, what can I say? I offered my services. I probably wouldn't take me up on them either. I'm far too loose of a cannon for that stuff.
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
_zeezrom
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Re: Stake Pres coming to visit

Post by _zeezrom »

Stem, I only gave you an hour? oh...

Well I recall you are pretty close to where I work. PM me and we'll go on a day that works for you.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_Scottie
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Re: Stake Pres coming to visit

Post by _Scottie »

Wisdom Seeker wrote:I came in way to late on this topic, but here is my two cents: We know Shades wants a good moderator but sending out your SP to see if you qualify that is going to far!

I laughed!

Good one! :)
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
_why me
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Re: Stake Pres coming to visit

Post by _why me »

Buffalo wrote:Please identify any concrete ways in which god has contributed to the success of the church.

And again, since you were never really a Mormon, your insight into what Mormons are like carries no weight, other than a revealing projection of your own attributes as a former pseudo Mormon.


Considering the difficulties the LDS church had in its beginnings and the pressure the early saints were under and the financial problems the early saints had, the church should have folded up. But it continued and became a success. Something was behind it.

I think that I was Mormon and still am Mormon. What gives you the authority to decide who is or who isn't a Mormon?
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Buffalo
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Re: Stake Pres coming to visit

Post by _Buffalo »

why me wrote:
Buffalo wrote:Please identify any concrete ways in which god has contributed to the success of the church.

And again, since you were never really a Mormon, your insight into what Mormons are like carries no weight, other than a revealing projection of your own attributes as a former pseudo Mormon.


Considering the difficulties the LDS church had in its beginnings and the pressure the early saints were under and the financial problems the early saints had, the church should have folded up. But it continued and became a success. Something was behind it.

I think that I was Mormon and still am Mormon. What gives you the authority to decide who is or who isn't a Mormon?


Yes, something was behind it - the hard work of its members.

You weren't a real Mormon per your own description.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_zeezrom
_Emeritus
Posts: 11938
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:57 pm

Re: Stake Pres coming to visit

Post by _zeezrom »

I think I know a way to help me get over the fear of male priesthood authority. I will pray to my God. I feel like Elijah.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
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