Apostle Holland's Lying in General Conference

[_Buffalo]

Yes, it was discussed. Welcome to discuss it again. The antics of Paid Ministerial LIARS is always a good topic.

Damnit, is your suspension over already?

Sigh.

Put him on ignore.

[_why me]

It's possible to be just wrong, without being a liar. Perhaps Elder Holland was just wrong.

Possible. But shouldn't an Apostle just come out and say 'whoops, got that wrong, sorry everyone'. A little note on the website or in the Ensign. Not admitting mistakes is a very fast walk off a very short plank for someone in authority.

I think that Ben proved that the OP's point is moot.

[_harmony]

It's possible to be just wrong, without being a liar. Perhaps Elder Holland was just wrong.

Possible. But shouldn't an Apostle just come out and say 'whoops, got that wrong, sorry everyone'. A little note on the website or in the Ensign. Not admitting mistakes is a very fast walk off a very short plank for someone in authority.

Not admitting mistakes is what our leaders do best. Haven't you noticed?

[_Themis]

What a kind and thougtful response to such a vile and petty post. I need to learn to take these higher roads more often.

Petty yes, but could you show how it is vile. I agree with Ben that Holland believed it was whether it was or not.

[_TrashcanMan79]

Danna did some good work on this back in the day. here it is

[_Buffalo]

I don't think it really counts as a lie - even if it isn't the book, he probably thinks it is.

[_stemelbow]

Petty yes, but could you show how it is vile. I agree with Ben that Holland believed it was whether it was or not.

Oh I don't know saying he's lying his caboos off seems to suggest he's just a big ol' liar. Indeed, his post was followed by accusations of Holland being a liar. I'd consider that vile behavior.

[_badseed]

It's possible to be just wrong, without being a liar. Perhaps Elder Holland was just wrong.

I've gotten into the bad habit of assuming that when LDS leaders say something inaccurate in an effort to promote faith, that it is something they're aware of and it is intentional. I shouldn't....but truth be told there's enough of a history it happening that I wonder how opposed many of these men are to stretching the truth.

"My duty as a member of the Council of the Twelve is to protect what is most unique about the LDS church, namely the authority of priesthood, testimony regarding the restoration of the gospel, and the divine mission of the Savior. Everything may be sacrificed in order to maintain the integrity of those essential facts. Thus, if Mormon Enigma reveals information that is detrimental to the reputation of Joseph Smith, then it is necessary to try to limit its influence and that of its authors."
- Apostle Dallin Oaks, footnote 28, Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith: Psychobiography and the Book of Mormon, Introduction p. xliii

“You seminary teachers and some of you institute and BYU men will be teaching the history of the Church this school year. This is an unparalleled opportunity in the lives of your students to increase their faith and testimony of the divinity of this work. Your objective should be that they will see the hand of the Lord in every hour and every moment of the Church from its beginning till now.”

“Church history can be so interesting and so inspiring as to be a very powerful tool indeed for building faith. If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a faith destroyer.”

“There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not.”

“Some things that are true are not very useful.”

- Apostle Boyd K. Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect", 1981, BYU Studies, Vol. 21, No. 3, pp. 259-271

Milk before meat....Lying for the Lord.....call it what you will— but it happens and I don't love it. Sure, I should give LDS leaders the benefit of the doubt— but they should do the same for the membership and not treat them like children who need have the thinking done for them.

Please excuse me butting in.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Nomomo,

There are two books (at least) which have had that claim made for it. The one you mention came from the wife of one of Hyrums's counsins (George A.). The Deseret News (your authoritative source) mentions the other book (and the one that Holland held up) here:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7053 ... erved.html

This copy was kept by Hyrum's son (Joseph F. Smith) with a note that he wrote in it (in 1898) detailing that it was the book that Hyrum marked before leaving for Carthage.

Generally, I think, most people accept the book that Holland held up as having better provenance than the one donated in 2007. At any rate, whichever is the real book that Hyrum used, I am pretty confident that Holland believed that the book he was holding up was the one Hyrum marked personally.

Ben M.

QFT.

[_3sheets2thewind]

Why blame the Church or Elder Holland, why not blame Scott Llyod and the other author?