Valuing life

[Guest]

What law or principle of nature, if there is no afterlife, would prevent evolution of the brain to the point of being able to question our own existence?

The better question is:

What law or principle of nature, if there is no afterlife, would encourage evolution of the brain to the point of being able to question our own existence?

See... what is the evolutionary advantage of consciousness? Of questioning our own existence?

Why do you suppose that conscious ability to question our own existence is not a virtue that makes life more exciting and less mundane, and therefore an evolutionary appealing trait?

Why do you suppose that the conscious ability to question our own existence is not some mental 'appendage' to another higher mental functioning developed to better assure survival, and for which there is little use and within the next 10,000 years of evolution this introspective 'appendage' will be eliminated? Don't those of the opposite sex find the deep thinkers more attractive than the dim-wits, and thus increase the chance for procreation?

[_Simon Belmont]

Why do you suppose that conscious ability to question our own existence is not a virtue that makes life more exciting and less mundane, and therefore an evolutionary appealing trait?

Why do you suppose that the conscious ability to question our own existence is not some mental 'appendage' to another higher functioning developed to better assure survival, and for which there is little use and within the next 10,000 years of evolution this introspective 'appendage' will be eliminated?

Survival for what purpose?

[_Socrates]

Why do you suppose that conscious ability to question our own existence is not a virtue that makes life more exciting and less mundane, and therefore an evolutionary appealing trait?

Why do you suppose that the conscious ability to question our own existence is not some mental 'appendage' to another higher functioning developed to better assure survival, and for which there is little use and within the next 10,000 years of evolution this introspective 'appendage' will be eliminated?

Survival for what purpose?

What purpose to survive in an afterlife? What's after that? What's after godhood? Will your thirst for power ever be quenched?

[_beefcalf]

What law or principle of nature, if there is no afterlife, would prevent evolution of the brain to the point of being able to question our own existence?

The better question is:

What law or principle of nature, if there is no afterlife, would encourage evolution of the brain to the point of being able to question our own existence?

See... what is the evolutionary advantage of consciousness? Of questioning our own existence?

We didn't evolve so we could begin to question our own existence. The ability to question one's own existence is a side-effect of having a brain which is very good at empathy, complex problem-solving and pattern recognition. Your brain's ability to see the suffering of a brother or sister being stalked or eaten by a saber-toothed tiger and recognizing that the tiger's intended victim might just as easily have been you proffers a powerful survival advantage. Empathy increases your chance of survival because empathic creatures take care of each other in times of injury, sickness or physical danger. The ability to be empathic is almost certainly founded in part upon the brain's ability to recognize the possibility of dying. Once your brain knows about dying, by seeing it in the world all around you, and being able to put itself in the place of those who have died before, you now have the ability to question your own existence. It's not an evolutionary advantage per se, but the side effect of a powerful survival mechanism.

[_Everybody Wang Chung]

It does have enough intrinsic value, by itself. I am saying that it makes it less valuable to me if it all just simply "poofs" out of existence after 70-90 years.

Think about it: You're going to wake up one morning and realize that you're 90 years old. At that point, it will seem like you've always been 90 years old, because everything that's happened to you up until that time is just a biochemical process that exists only in your grey matter (a "memory"). How depressing!

Why would an Atheist find that depressing? If they have lived a full life, helped other people, made meaningful contributions, then why would they not be fulfilled? Strange, Simon.

Doesn’t the fact that the majority of the world’s population manage to live perfectly satisfactory, fulfilled lives without believing what you believe make you stop and think just for a moment?

Now, you'd never let me get away with an appeal to popularity, and I don't think I'll let you get away with it either.

Actually, it's an appeal to facts. Nice dodge. In other words, you can't answer the question. The vast majority of people do not believe as you do, but manage to live fulfuilled and happy lives. Doesn't that make you pause?

I know its the only life there is, too. I enjoy it because we only get one mortal life on earth. But I also believe that I will be able to see the fruits of the things I've done here from the perspective of the afterlife.

Why would that make you happier than an Atheist?

Simon, the facts are that most Atheist live happy, healthy and productive lives. They are not sad, depressed or taking anti-depressants (think Utah) according to conclusion of your logic.

[_harmony]

There is no proof of an afterlife, so recording what you've done, your interactions with your children and their children, making a difference to society... those are what make anyone live forever.

[_Socrates]

We didn't evolve so we could begin to question our own existence. The ability to question one's own existence is a side-effect of having a brain which is very good at empathy, complex problem-solving and pattern recognition. Your brain's ability to see the suffering of a brother or sister being stalked or eaten by a saber-toothed tiger and recognizing that the tiger's intended victim might just as easily have been you proffers a powerful survival advantage. Empathy increases your chance of survival because empathic creatures take care of each other in times of injury, sickness or physical danger. The ability to be empathic is almost certainly founded in part upon the brain's ability to recognize the possibility of dying. Once your brain knows about dying, by seeing it in the world all around you, and being able to put itself in the place of those who have died before, you now have the ability to question your own existence. It's not an evolutionary advantage per se, but the side effect of a powerful survival mechanism.

So, man can develop morality without a divine being giving it to man?

[_beefcalf]

We didn't evolve so we could begin to question our own existence. The ability to question one's own existence is a side-effect of having a brain which is very good at empathy, complex problem-solving and pattern recognition. Your brain's ability to see the suffering of a brother or sister being stalked or eaten by a saber-toothed tiger and recognizing that the tiger's intended victim might just as easily have been you proffers a powerful survival advantage. Empathy increases your chance of survival because empathic creatures take care of each other in times of injury, sickness or physical danger. The ability to be empathic is almost certainly founded in part upon the brain's ability to recognize the possibility of dying. Once your brain knows about dying, by seeing it in the world all around you, and being able to put itself in the place of those who have died before, you now have the ability to question your own existence. It's not an evolutionary advantage per se, but the side effect of a powerful survival mechanism.

So, man can develop morality without a divine being giving it to man?

I believe it is self-evident. Civilized people and societies certainly do NOT look to the Bible as a source of morality, I am happy to report.

[_harmony]

So, man can develop morality without a divine being giving it to man?

I believe it is self-evident. Civilized people and societies certainly do NOT look to the Bible as a source of morality, I am happy to report.

What about other scriptures? Half the world (it seems) is devoted to the Koran. Are they not civilized?

[_Simon Belmont]

What purpose to survive in an afterlife? What's after that? What's after godhood? Will your thirst for power ever be quenched?

There is no "thirst for power." The purpose of an afterlife is to continue learning, growing, achieving, and working. If there were no afterlife, anything we do or achieve ends. I can think of nothing more depressing.