Sorry true believers - I'm crashing your Celestial party

[_brade]

Suppose I entered into the relevant covenant, the Holy Ghost ratified that covenant, but then I go on to do something sinful; but short of shedding innocent blood. Is it your view that by sinning the ratification is removed?

Sometimes.

Suppose, say, I go inactive and commence moderate alcohol consumption. Having been once ratified, will my ratification be removed by the Holy Ghost such that I will not enter into my exaltation subsequent to being destroyed in the flesh and buffeted by Satan?

That is the most likely scenario. Enjoy your buffeting and hope it is in reference to a buffet.

I want to make sure I understand your view correctly. On your view this

Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

actually means this

Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they might not come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; because sometimes their sealing will have been
removed upon notice of their non-innocent-blood-shedding sins.

or this

Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they likely will not come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation, because the most likely scenario is that their sealing will have been
removed upon notice of their non-innocent-blood-shedding sins.

[_The Nehor]

It means neither. It means what it says. Unless you know what the Holy Spirit of Promise is the passage will be meaningless to you.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hello,

Yet another example of an apologist not believing his own scriptures.

I'll see ya in the Celestial Kingdom, Mr. Buffalo! *fist pumps the air*

V/R
Dr. Cam "I'm crashin' on God's couch." NC for Me

[_jon]

D&C 132:

26Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

See you there!

I hadn't considered this before, so thanks for pointing this out buff.
Here's how I read this (after several careful readings and looking up meanings of the words used):
If you are married and sealed in the Temple then you are guaranteed to be exalted as long as you can avoid shedding innocent blood. Sure, if you subsequently transgress in this life then you might get a rough ride from Satan, but all will be okay in the next.

Brilliant!

[_brade]

It means neither. It means what it says. Unless you know what the Holy Spirit of Promise is the passage will be meaningless to you.

Again, to get clear on your view, here's the verse:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

And your view is that that verse means what it says. It says that a person who's been sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, relative to a specific ordinance,shall enter into their exaltation, unless they shed innocent blood.

Also, your view is that sometimes, and it is the most likely scenario[/], a person who's been sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise will [i]not enter into their exaltation, if they've sinned in the right way, even if they have not shed innocent blood.

Is this right?

[_zeezrom]

We all forgot something. What about the children? Sure, you and yours will make it but the kids may not.

I believe this is the button the church pushes. Scary!

[_zeezrom]

Correction. The church is less responsible for pushing the "risk to children" button than the people themselves. We create much of our fears, do we not?

[_Buffalo]

Nope, it's still good. Read the not so fine print:

"he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation."

I come here and blaspheme every day. I'm covered by the celestial insurance policy. Sorry, sucka. The CK will be full of apostates and anti-Mormons. :)

Do you think that there will be an opt out clause? I hope there is an opt out clause.

Unless the apostates and ex-members constitute a sizable majority (which according to this scripture may well be the case), I would just as soon move in downstairs and closer to the street.

I think we will be in the majority. The church produces more ex-Mormons than true believers.

[_Buffalo]

Nope, it's still good. Read the not so fine print:

"he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation."

I come here and blaspheme every day. I'm covered by the celestial insurance policy. Sorry, sucka. The CK will be full of apostates and anti-Mormons. :)

Your quote conveniently left out the "Holy Spirit of Promise bit" so sorry, you are still wrong....and a bad quoter.

We had the holy spirit of promise when we were married. It specifically says that after that you can commit ANY sins short of shedding innocent blood, and still receive your exaltation. No repentance required, just a "buffeting" period. Read it and weep, Nehor.

[_Buffalo]

Hello,

Yet another example of an apologist not believing his own scriptures.

I'll see ya in the Celestial Kingdom, Mr. Buffalo! *fist pumps the air*

V/R
Dr. Cam "I'm crashin' on God's couch." NC for Me

The first thing I'm going to do is pee in the celestial swimming pool. God's really going to regret giving Joseph Smith that revelation, most of which seems to have been designed to a) get Joseph out of trouble with Emma, and b) tell Emma to shut up and learn her place.