Runtu wrote:I have no reason to believe that Monson and the rest of the higher-ups do not sincerely believe in the church and gospel. You would have to be really odd or really evil to spend that much time and effort on something you didn't believe.
I would partially agree. There is a certain energy we receive from others that support us in whatever we do. They are rockstars and feel this from stadiums full of people. Some would call this energy intoxicating. Regardless, I think they misjudge this phenomenen for truth or at least affirmation. No doubt, it even effects the quiet moments when they are in self reflection.
It still doesn't give them a pass, for misdirecting their power from saving those that are currently suffering. Even heathenistic rockstars are known to eleviate suffering. Proportionately I think it's a fail on their part.
Inconceivable wrote:It still doesn't give them a pass, for misdirecting their power from saving those that are currently suffering. Even heathenistic rockstars are known to eleviate suffering. Proportionately I think it's a fail on their part.
I'm pretty sure they believe they are alleviating suffering by bringing the gospel to people.
hatersinmyward wrote:1. what are you doing next thanksgiving lostindc?
2. packer knew who i was durring a 'special stake conference appearance' and probably thanked his lucky stars he didn't ask me all the right questions. so in the intimate setting where we all were, he just got up and b.s.'d durring his whole shpill. one of the LDS members placed a plastic knife under my chair then after a bishop rick member who was sitting off to the side told me i'm glad you saw the knife.
Clearly I am going to be with you wearing tin foil hats and hopefully eating free range turkey. I was planning on taking the family to my brother's house in Manhatten but that can wait.
Inconceivable wrote:It still doesn't give them a pass, for misdirecting their power from saving those that are currently suffering. Even heathenistic rockstars are known to eleviate suffering. Proportionately I think it's a fail on their part.
I'm pretty sure they believe they are alleviating suffering by bringing the gospel to people.
I am going to go with Runtu on this one. I think that the leaders of the Mormon church sincerely believe that they are guided by God to a large degree in their professional ministry.
The human mind is nothing if not a great tool for simulation. People can manufacture spiritual witnesses, large and small, as well as a variety of other stimuli to make sense of a confusing universe. We tend to shape our worlds as much as we are shaped by them, and this hold true for Monson and crew.
So, the short answer is that yes I think they believe it, just as I used to believe it when I was a TBM. Even in instances where they are obviously "lying for the Lord" (Hinkley Interviews), they probably justify that by comparing it to what Jesus did in the New Testament with his parables.
I find the leaders of the Mormon church no more and no less harmful and deluded than any other believers in the supernatural.
"Joseph Smith was called as a prophet, dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb" -South Park
keithb wrote:I find the leaders of the Mormon church no more and no less harmful and deluded than any other believers in the supernatural.
Whether or not they are harmful is another subject. It's certainly easy for some to cast church leaders as villains. I guess the reasoning is that, because the apostate has figured out that the church isn't true, the leaders must know that as well and are just pretending to believe for some nefarious purpose.
I've met and worked with a lot of General Authorities, and it was obvious to me that they truly believed. Of course, I don't have the powers of discernment some others have, and it didn't occur to me to ask them if they were Democrats.
keithb wrote:I am going to go with Runtu on this one. I think that the leaders of the Mormon church sincerely believe that they are guided by God to a large degree in their professional ministry.
The human mind is nothing if not a great tool for simulation. People can manufacture spiritual witnesses, large and small, as well as a variety of other stimuli to make sense of a confusing universe. We tend to shape our worlds as much as we are shaped by them, and this hold true for Monson and crew.
So, the short answer is that yes I think they believe it, just as I used to believe it when I was a TBM. Even in instances where they are obviously "lying for the Lord" (Hinkley Interviews), they probably justify that by comparing it to what Jesus did in the New Testament with his parables.
I find the leaders of the Mormon church no more and no less harmful and deluded than any other believers in the supernatural.
I don't mind agreeing.
Here is another way of putting it (with a few adjustments, it's dead on):
53 But behold, the devil hath deceived me; for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel, and said unto me: Go and reclaim this people, for they have all gone astray after an unknown God. And he said unto me: There is no God; yea, and he taught me that which I should say. And I have taught his words; and I taught them because they were pleasing unto the carnal mind; and I taught them, even until I had much success, insomuch that I verily believed that they were true; and for this cause I withstood the truth, even until I have brought this great curse upon me.