Poll: Evolution

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Which statement is closest to your view of human origins?

 
Total votes: 0

_EAllusion
_Emeritus
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Re: Poll: Evolution

Post by _EAllusion »

Hoops wrote:No. We can predict what God will due because He has told us...


That's circular. It's instinctive for people to ground the predictability of God's behavior in his good nature. But since you've said goodness is contingent on God's will, that means the assertion that God has a good nature is empty of content. Whatever God does is good by definition. And that could just as easily include lying to you. It's hard to imagine who you even build a case for a history of honest behavior from God, but even assuming you did, it doesn't preclude a long con without some a priori predictability to how God acts. People tend to intuitively do this by humanizing God, but only in an ad hoc, implausible way as God needs to be dehumanized the second it becomes necessary to not judge him in the way we'd judge a human. But this all moot here if you merely assert the tautology that God will behave how God behaves.
No. it's not that anything God declares is good, it's that anything that is good is the very nature of God. big difference.


It may be a big difference. If whatever God's nature happens to be is good by definition, then you are in the exact same problem. In other words, if it could be in God's nature to be a liar and then that would be our standard of goodness, then you've resolved nothing. God could still be a liar and that be good. The problem is whether there is a necessary moral standard logically prior to God or whether moral standards are contingent on the nature of God. Saying "goodness is part of God's nature" doesn't resolve that.

So if you want to instead argue that there is some independent standard by which we know lying is wrong and God comes off well according to that standard so we know God won't lie, you've rescued yourself from my problem. But, at the same time, you've rendered your earlier position in this thread: "In fact, the attributes we consider good, decent, holy are defined by God, not the other way around," completely wrong. So your going to abandon one of the positions you are taking here.
_Buffalo
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Re: Poll: Evolution

Post by _Buffalo »

Hoops wrote:
Buffalo wrote:So hoops, what's your take on the god-mandated infanticide in the Old Testament? Good? Evil? A fable?


What do you mean, what is my take? What are you asking me to evaluate?


Numbers 31

31:13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Mephitus
_Emeritus
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Re: Poll: Evolution

Post by _Mephitus »

Patriarchal gripe wrote:Currently reading Dawkins as well, The Greatest Show on Earth. Great book.

Oh yeah, i read that shortly after it came out. Ditto on the recommendation to read it.
One nice thing is, ze game of love is never called on account of darkness - Pepe Le Pew
_Tarski
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Re: Poll: Evolution

Post by _Tarski »

EAllusion wrote:Your Inner Fish is in my top 5 all time pop science books. It's that good.



Yes it is that good.

(If a person does not suspect evolution is true after reading that book then something is seriously wrong with said person)
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
_moksha
_Emeritus
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Re: Poll: Evolution

Post by _moksha »

zeezrom wrote:
Chap wrote:Which deity, by the way? There are so many ...

Probably the most important question and it's usually ignored by us all.


Since this is the Mormon Discussions board, it would probably be safe to assume that the one Christian/Muslim/Judaic God is the deity in question. Sorry FSM, evolution via your noodley appendages is probably not on the table.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_GR33N
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Re: Poll: Evolution

Post by _GR33N »

Your inner fish? LOL
_Chap
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Re: Poll: Evolution

Post by _Chap »

moksha wrote:Since this is the Mormon Discussions board, it would probably be safe to assume that the one Christian/Muslim/Judaic God is the deity in question. Sorry FSM, evolution via your noodley appendages is probably not on the table.


I know that Christians claim their deity is the same as the Jewish one, but quite a few Jews seem to have their doubts.

The Muslims claim that their deity is the real and authentic version of the deity that the Jews and Christians have made imperfect efforts to understand, but I am not sure that most Christians or Jews agree with them.

So the idea that there is just a single deity worshiped by all three 'Abrahamic' religions is perhaps problematic.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_beefcalf
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Re: Poll: Evolution

Post by _beefcalf »

Buffalo wrote:So hoops, what's your take on the god-mandated infanticide in the Old Testament? Good? Evil? A fable?


Hoops wrote:What do you mean, what is my take? What are you asking me to evaluate?


Buffalo wrote:Numbers 31

31:13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.



Might I add Psalms 137?

9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Take babies. Smash them against rocks. Be happy.

Gotcha.

Nice book.
eschew obfuscation

"I'll let you believers in on a little secret: not only is the LDS church not really true, it's obviously not true." -Sethbag
_GR33N
_Emeritus
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Re: Poll: Evolution

Post by _GR33N »

beefcalf wrote:
Buffalo wrote:Numbers 31

31:13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.



Might I add Psalms 137?

9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Take babies. Smash them against rocks. Be happy.

Gotcha.

Nice book.


I suggest you do some research as to the meaning and intention of these verses. What context were they written? What was the circumstances surrounding them? I doing so you might gain some insight.
Then saith He to Thomas... be not faithless, but believing. - John 20:27
_honorentheos
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Re: Poll: Evolution

Post by _honorentheos »

Tarski wrote:
EAllusion wrote:Your Inner Fish is in my top 5 all time pop science books. It's that good.



Yes it is that good.

(If a person does not suspect evolution is true after reading that book then something is seriously wrong with said person)

I'd be very interested in what makes the list for both Tarski's and EA's top 5 pop science books.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
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