Disliking Joseph Smith

[_Joseph]

joethecoxman had one major characteristic of many con-men. He was likable and could persuade people his way. Whether by a power of persuasion or some kind of personal magnetism, who knows? But, he has a long history of losing many of those who were at first mesmerized by his personality/holiness/whatever.

Some were even the subject of revelations from God and callings while they were distancing themselves from joeyboy once the aura wore thin.

Either he was a terrible judge of character or many saw through him and quit. Some could not admit they made a mistake in getting caught in his web, so we have Brigham & Co as a result.

[_Falcon A]

I'm in agreement Runtu,

My feelings are much different than they were as an Elder; prior to learning the 'other side of the story'.

by the way, if you don't mind me asking, are you in Provo?
If so, I'd like to buy you a killer Pulled Pork BBQ sandwich at a place I found in Orem.

Peace.

[_why me]

But it struck me that I don't really like him very much. He's not someone who would be my friend, and I certainly wouldn't let my daughters babysit for him.

But of course you really don't know him. You have no idea just how he lived each day and what he said on a daily basis. And yet, there were many people who truly admired him when he was alive and yet, truly hated him. Such is the life of man of conviction. If a person has conviction and speaks up for that conviction, he can instill rath in people. And he can instill love too.

Joseph organized a church that continues to produce good seed that sprouts good fruit. In that, he needs to be admired. I see no bad seed sprouting from the soil because of Joseph Smith. Just the opposite. Thus, whatever prejudice you may have against the man may just be unjust.

[_why me]

Who could not like a guy who opened his home to young girls who needed care, and when they were old enough and after a few years of grooming... 'married' them?

SEXUAL PREDATOR

If you say so. And yet, the church that he organized continues to sprout good fruit. One can learn a great deal from the church he organized: we are children of god and should treat our bodies as temples because we are god's children. Such a message continues to grow good fruit throughout the world and such a message would certainly make societies better. Such is the debt we owe Joseph Smith for organizing the church. Or was it god that organized such a church for us to benefit from?

[_why me]

I didn't realize how much I don't care for Joseph Smith until I learned that my niece was wearing a Joseph Smith ring, a silver band with his name inside. She was wearing it like a wedding ring. Ugh on so many levels. Now she's gotten herself married with a new ring, thank goodness.

And yet, the church that he organized teaches young women to respect their bodies and to treat their bodies as temples, a place where the holy ghost can dwell. And so, what is wrong with a Joseph Smith ring? Would you rather that she sported a skull and bones ring on her finger and got a tattoo that says 'rock lives' on her shoulder? Maybe you should wake up and see what kind of niece you have: most likely a sweet niece with good values and pride in her accomplishments.

[cacheman]

I'm in agreement Runtu,

My feelings are much different than they were as an Elder; prior to learning the 'other side of the story'.

by the way, if you don't mind me asking, are you in Provo?
If so, I'd like to buy you a killer Pulled Pork BBQ sandwich at a place I found in Orem.

Peace.

I'm in Provo, yep. Send me a PM. I'm always up for a good pulled-pork sandwich.

[_why me]

I'm in agreement Runtu,

My feelings are much different than they were as an Elder; prior to learning the 'other side of the story'.

by the way, if you don't mind me asking, are you in Provo?
If so, I'd like to buy you a killer Pulled Pork BBQ sandwich at a place I found in Orem.

Peace.

What side of the story was that? To my knowledge any book written today was not authored by anyone who was an eyewitness to the actions of Joseph Smith. And since Joseph Smith tended to create bipolar people: either he was liked or disliked, it would be difficult to know just who exactly he was.

[cacheman]

But of course you really don't know him. You have no idea just how he lived each day and what he said on a daily basis. And yet, there were many people who truly admired him when he was alive and yet, truly hated him. Such is the life of man of conviction. If a person has conviction and speaks up for that conviction, he can instill rath in people. And he can instill love too.

I'm aware of that. My ancestor was fiercely loyal to Joseph. But knowing what I do know about Joseph, yes, it is hard to like him. I don't hate him, but I also don't believe he was a man of conviction. A man of opportunity, manipulation, maybe, but not of conviction.

Joseph organized a church that continues to produce good seed that sprouts good fruit. In that, he needs to be admired. I see no bad seed sprouting from the soil because of Joseph Smith. Just the opposite. Thus, whatever prejudice you may have against the man may just be unjust.

I see the bad fruit as well as the good, but in the end, he was not the man I used to think he was. I can't admire him for what he did.

[_Runtu]

What side of the story was that? To my knowledge any book written today was not authored by anyone who was an eyewitness to the actions of Joseph Smith. And since Joseph Smith tended to create bipolar people: either he was liked or disliked, it would be difficult to know just who exactly he was.

I don't dislike him because he was or wasn't a prophet. I dislike him because he was manipulative and used people.

[_why me]

I don't dislike him because he was or wasn't a prophet. I dislike him because he was manipulative and used people.

So your ancestor was used and manipulated? And who did he use? I see people believing in the church and I see people leaving the church and hating him but not the church. In some stange way we are all used and manipulated. But with joseph, he had a job he felt he had to do. Much probably depended on the spirit and if that spirit was felt by the membership. And yet, was apostle Paul a manipulator? One could argue yes too.