Church talks given by the little Zees

[_Yoda]

So answer me this, mr. all talk and no action Mormon, is it better for a man to be a good hardworking father to his children while not forcing religion on them? .

Zee is teaching his children to dislike the church. There is no question that he has influenced them to think and believe a certain way now that he no longer attends church. So, he is forcing a new belief on them. Do you really think that there ideas posted in the OP were their own?

Zee and his wife are BOTH influencing their children. It was a joint decision for their family to discontinue attending Church. Also, I don't actually recall Zee stating that he was teaching his kids to dislike Church. They are simply no longer attending. And, yes, he and his wife have decided to choose a different religion for their family. That is their right. And it is not wrong.

[_why me]

Zee and his wife are BOTH influencing their children. It was a joint decision for their family to discontinue attending Church. Also, I don't actually recall Zee stating that he was teaching his kids to dislike Church. They are simply no longer attending. And, yes, he and his wife have decided to choose a different religion for their family. That is their right. And it is not wrong.

If you read the OP you will see that zee is rather proud of the talks that the little zees would like to give, including why one little zee hates the church. Hate is a pretty strong action word. So, we have a little zee hating the church, a church that this little zee used to attend. Where did the hatred come from? And how often have the little zees heard the parents say negative or hateful things against the Mormon church? And yes, it has been a joint decision between zee and his wife to teach such things.

[_LDSToronto]

Zee and his wife are BOTH influencing their children. It was a joint decision for their family to discontinue attending Church. Also, I don't actually recall Zee stating that he was teaching his kids to dislike Church. They are simply no longer attending. And, yes, he and his wife have decided to choose a different religion for their family. That is their right. And it is not wrong.

If you read the OP you will see that zee is rather proud of the talks that the little zees would like to give, including why one little zee hates the church. Hate is a pretty strong action word. So, we have a little zee hating the church, a church that this little zee used to attend. Where did the hatred come from? And how often have the little zees heard the parents say negative or hateful things against the Mormon church? And yes, it has been a joint decision between zee and his wife to teach such things.

Soon after I learned things about the truth claims of the LDS Church, I shared my feelings with my kids. They all asked for evidence, so I shared what sources I had. Each of them have made up their own mind about the church. In fact, being open with them allowed each of them to tell me and my wife what they truly felt about the church. My oldest is ambivalent - he will attend when I attend, and will abstain when I abstain, and will attend whichever activities and firesides he desires. My middle son has declared he never believed in the church and was going along. My youngest, she has said she likes her friends, but hates primary.

Kids have minds of their own.

H.

[_zeezrom]

LDST,

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing!

[_why me]

Soon after I learned things about the truth claims of the LDS Church, I shared my feelings with my kids. They all asked for evidence, so I shared what sources I had. Each of them have made up their own mind about the church. In fact, being open with them allowed each of them to tell me and my wife what they truly felt about the church. My oldest is ambivalent - he will attend when I attend, and will abstain when I abstain, and will attend whichever activities and firesides he desires. My middle son has declared he never believed in the church and was going along. My youngest, she has said she likes her friends, but hates primary.

Kids have minds of their own.

H.

It may be true that little torontos have a mind of their own especially when they are two years old. But for zee, his kids seem little since he said little zees. So, I have no idea just what kids can decide and not decide on their own. Parents should have no say in guiding their little minds? It is obvious tha zee and his wife have been negative about the church in front of their children. This would influence any child in their attitude about their former church. Parents have a lot of clout when kids are young to mould and shape their minds.

[_why me]

Soon after I learned things about the truth claims of the LDS Church, I shared my feelings with my kids. They all asked for evidence, so I shared what sources I had. Each of them have made up their own mind about the church. In fact, being open with them allowed each of them to tell me and my wife what they truly felt about the church. My oldest is ambivalent - he will attend when I attend, and will abstain when I abstain, and will attend whichever activities and firesides he desires. My middle son has declared he never believed in the church and was going along. My youngest, she has said she likes her friends, but hates primary.

Kids have minds of their own.

H.

Here is the problem as I see it. You gave your own spin on the truth claims and you gave your own opinion about them. Of course this would influence them. Also, since you and zee have not shared the ages when all this is happening, it is difficult to make a call on this. The range of ages for being a kid is quite wide.

[_Themis]

Here is the problem as I see it. You gave your own spin on the truth claims and you gave your own opinion about them. Of course this would influence them.

Everyone does, even those who would let their children think for themselves. At least LDSToronto and Zee let their kids think for themselves. The church does not really encourage that. I am not sure why you decided to be Zee's stalker.

[_why me]

Everyone does, even those who would let their children think for themselves. At least LDSToronto and Zee let their kids think for themselves. The church does not really encourage that. I am not sure why you decided to be Zee's stalker.

I see. So, the little zees came to their own conclusions? And the children of ldstoronto too? I don't think so. Most children depending on the age would follow their parents. And this is what we see in both cases. I do not believe that neither ldstoronto or zee gave their children freedom of choice. Their influence is still being felt.

The LDS church allows people to think for themselves. I see no brainwashing. When I read the epistles of paul I see no encouragement for allowing members to think for themselves. I just see letters explaining how to do life. But in the end, each early saint had the freedom to say yes or no. And I am sure that some went back to the pagans.

Here would be a typical conversation between a parent and their little ones: Children I know that it is sunday but we are not going to church today. Why, daddy. Because it is not true. Instead we will find god in the forest or in the trees. Lets have a good time today. Okay daddy.

Daddy and mommy around the children talk about the evils of the church...the children listen attentively and begin to hate the church too and they come up with their own take on things by suggesting talks tha mommy and daddy would approve of.

[_harmony]

I see. So, the little zees came to their own conclusions? And the children of ldstoronto too? I don't think so. Most children depending on the age would follow their parents. And this is what we see in both cases. I do not believe that neither ldstoronto or zee gave their children freedom of choice. Their influence is still being felt.

Somehow I think your response would be different, if the children chose to remain in the church.

Why is it okay, and good, for parents to influence their children through Book of Mormon stories and Primary songs to "Follow the Prophet", yet not okay and not good for parents to influence their children via other means?

[_Themis]

I see. So, the little zees came to their own conclusions? And the children of ldstoronto too? I don't think so. Most children depending on the age would follow their parents. And this is what we see in both cases. I do not believe that neither ldstoronto or zee gave their children freedom of choice. Their influence is still being felt.

You are confusing freedom of choice with influencing people to your way of thinking or seeing. They are not the same. Sure they can let their children decide for themselves does not mean they will not be influenced by what their parents think. This happens with everyone.

The LDS church allows people to think for themselves. I see no brainwashing.

Many members, like many outside the church, will tend to tell their children what is right and wrong and what they should believe. Some parents will say what they think, but tell them they can decide for themselves. The church in it's classes tells them what they should believe, and gives them a false method for knowing.

Here would be a typical conversation between a parent and their little ones: Children I know that it is sunday but we are not going to church today. Why, daddy. Because it is not true. Instead we will find god in the forest or in the trees. Lets have a good time today. Okay daddy.

What is wrong with finding God in the forest? Sounds like a good idea. Talking about why parents may not believe certain things is also good. I see Zee seems to be letting his kids decide for themselves, even though they he have influence on their decisions which is true for everyone.

Daddy and mommy around the children talk about the evils of the church.

Could you provide your source for this, although I know you almost never back up your assertions. Also if you think something is wrong or incorrect about any religion, there is nothing wrong about talking to your kids about it. In fact it would be wrong not to.

..the children listen attentively and begin to hate the church too and they come up with their own take on things by suggesting talks tha mommy and daddy would approve of.

I don't think you understand what a child means when they say they hate the church. They usually mean they don't like attending because it is boring. Something most members tend to expereince as well.