Themis wrote:I don't think you understand what a child means when they say they hate the church. They usually mean they don't like attending because it is boring. Something most members tend to expereince as well.
And why would a child find primary boring? They are usually playing around. And in terms of classroom boredom, much depends on the teacher. But even here a parent can have the child empathize with the teacher who is most likely mom's friend in church and just trying to do their best.
And in terms of members...well...these days excitement tends to come from a box and not from a real live person. People more and more wish to be entertained with flash. Hard for a human being to compete. Maybe people are just becoming boring.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Themis wrote:Many members, like many outside the church, will tend to tell their children what is right and wrong and what they should believe. Some parents will say what they think, but tell them they can decide for themselves. The church in it's classes tells them what they should believe, and gives them a false method for knowing.
Actually, many parents are teaching their childern to believe in the now and believe in the moment. We see this in the values that the young now have. They have an empathy I-Q of a frog. Thus, the freedom to decide for themselves only leads to anarchy in morals.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote:I see. So, the little zees came to their own conclusions? And the children of ldstoronto too? I don't think so. Most children depending on the age would follow their parents. And this is what we see in both cases. I do not believe that neither ldstoronto or zee gave their children freedom of choice. Their influence is still being felt.
Somehow I think your response would be different, if the children chose to remain in the church.
Why is it okay, and good, for parents to influence their children through Book of Mormon stories and Primary songs to "Follow the Prophet", yet not okay and not good for parents to influence their children via other means?
And the above is more recent. I tend to think that without the LDS church many of the teenagers of the former Mormons would have fallen by the wayside.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote:And why would a child find primary boring? They are usually playing around. And in terms of classroom boredom, much depends on the teacher. But even here a parent can have the child empathize with the teacher who is most likely mom's friend in church and just trying to do their best.
And in terms of members...well...these days excitement tends to come from a box and not from a real live person. People more and more wish to be entertained with flash. Hard for a human being to compete. Maybe people are just becoming boring.
Do you question that some children are bored at church and don't like it. This would show a real lack of knowledge and experience with children.
Actually, many parents are teaching their childern to believe in the now and believe in the moment. We see this in the values that the young now have. They have an empathy I-Q of a frog. Thus, the freedom to decide for themselves only leads to anarchy in morals.
I question your assertion here, but I know many believe this, usually because that is what they have been taught to.
LDSToronto wrote:Soon after I learned things about the truth claims of the LDS Church, I shared my feelings with my kids. They all asked for evidence, so I shared what sources I had. Each of them have made up their own mind about the church. In fact, being open with them allowed each of them to tell me and my wife what they truly felt about the church. My oldest is ambivalent - he will attend when I attend, and will abstain when I abstain, and will attend whichever activities and firesides he desires. My middle son has declared he never believed in the church and was going along. My youngest, she has said she likes her friends, but hates primary.
Kids have minds of their own.
H.
Here is the problem as I see it. You gave your own spin on the truth claims and you gave your own opinion about them. Of course this would influence them. Also, since you and zee have not shared the ages when all this is happening, it is difficult to make a call on this. The range of ages for being a kid is quite wide.
I don't need you to 'make a call on this'; I won't share the ages of my kids, but if you read enough of my posts, you can probably discern that they aren't young and impressionable.
Do you believe parents who are TBMs never put a spin on the truth claims to portray those claims favourably?
H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level." ~ Ernest Becker "Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death." ~ Simone de Beauvoir
LDSToronto wrote:Do you believe parents who are TBMs never put a spin on the truth claims to portray those claims favourably?
H.
All parents contribute in the socialization process of their children. And that was my point. Zee is in the process of doing this. He is engaged in the socialization process of processing them out of the church. His children did not come up with those talk topics in a bubble. To assume that his children are free now to make freer dicisions because they are out of the church is a mistake. Likewise for your children, depending on their age.
And the links that I have posted to show just how dangerous it is out there for teenagers prove what can happen to young people who have bad parenting traditions. However, exmos do have church teaching which they give their children even when they are exmos. The LDS church has given them a good foundation for parenting.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Droopy wrote:And when the Big Bad Wolf comes by and blows down the houses of straw and sticks their daddy taught them to build, daddy will have some explaining to do to his creator.
Bricks, anyone?
Cult members love to scare rational people with silly threats. Rational people aren't scared of the bogeyman, though.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
LDSToronto wrote:Why Me, you can't criticize Zee's parenting without opening yourself up to criticism yourself.
H.
Really? I have done just fine with my kids who are now adults. They are open minded and accepting of my relationship with the LDS church and the catholic church. I don't discuss religion with them at all and I don't attempt to guide them here or there about religion.
I hope you didn't creep your kids out with your talk of spilling semen everywhere.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
liz3564 wrote:Zee and his wife are BOTH influencing their children. It was a joint decision for their family to discontinue attending Church. Also, I don't actually recall Zee stating that he was teaching his kids to dislike Church. They are simply no longer attending. And, yes, he and his wife have decided to choose a different religion for their family. That is their right. And it is not wrong.
If you read the OP you will see that zee is rather proud of the talks that the little zees would like to give, including why one little zee hates the church. Hate is a pretty strong action word. So, we have a little zee hating the church, a church that this little zee used to attend. Where did the hatred come from? And how often have the little zees heard the parents say negative or hateful things against the Mormon church? And yes, it has been a joint decision between zee and his wife to teach such things.
Most normal Mormon kids hate church.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
why me wrote: All parents contribute in the socialization process of their children. And that was my point. Zee is in the process of doing this. He is engaged in the socialization process of processing them out of the church. His children did not come up with those talk topics in a bubble. To assume that his children are free now to make freer dicisions because they are out of the church is a mistake. Likewise for your children, depending on their age.
Why state what we have already stated as though we don't know children are highly influenced by their parents, especially at a young age?
And the links that I have posted to show just how dangerous it is out there for teenagers prove what can happen to young people who have bad parenting traditions. However, exmos do have church teaching which they give their children even when they are exmos. The LDS church has given them a good foundation for parenting.
Bad parenting can be found within the church as well. I haven't seen anything to suggest that children of atheist or agnostic parents do worse then religious ones. I also understand that atheists make up a much smaller percentage of the jails then they do of the general population. Maybe they are worse, but just smarter at getting away with it. :)