harmony wrote:I have a couple of sons who are staunch conservatives. The rest of us tolerate their politics because we love them, but really... some days, I wonder where they get that stuff, because it sure as heck wasn't taught in my home!
Conservatism (as in teaparty) wasn't taught to me growing up, either. I'm not sure where it comes except that it is a product of fear. I'm not sure why Mormons are so fearful, and yet so many are.
Lucrectia,
Your statement above captured what I think is the core issue. I have to admit I see similar fear in extreme liberal views as well as arrogance so I wouldn't limit it to just extreme conservatives. I think Eric Hofer's book The True Believer is timely even if the players change.
More and more I wonder if we are failing the experiment our national fathers (and mothers of course) set us upon? Sometimes I think we have forgotten that this really is an experiment that is only a few generations old and that, in the scale of human social development, not that well established.
The thoughts that motivate me, though, are related to those early days of the republic when men like Thomas Jefferson and James Madison faced similar forces and though faith in humanity's potential managed to prevail despite the fear that existed then as it does now. Human beings feel no less disenfranchised then as they do today I suspect.
My view is that we are best able to advance when we look to their victories for guidance.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:Conservatism (as in teaparty) wasn't taught to me growing up, either. I'm not sure where it comes except that it is a product of fear. I'm not sure why Mormons are so fearful, and yet so many are.
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Fear? Actually, the economy is in the toilet and it is not just in america. The world could be in meltdown as the debt goes sky high and as the euro causes more poverty in europe. Not to mention the rest of the world which seems to be not in good shape at all. The elites are creating policies that certainly do not spread peaceful feelings out there.
Also, how do you know that many Mormons are fearful? Are other christians fearful?
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:Conservatism (as in teaparty) wasn't taught to me growing up, either. I'm not sure where it comes except that it is a product of fear. I'm not sure why Mormons are so fearful, and yet so many are.
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Fear? Actually, the economy is in the toilet and it is not just in america. The world could be in meltdown as the debt goes sky high and as the euro causes more poverty in europe. Not to mention the rest of the world which seems to be not in good shape at all. The elites are creating policies that certainly do not spread peaceful feelings out there.
Also, how do you know that many Mormons are fearful? Are other christians fearful?
You know, Why Me, I don't think having some fear or unease about the current situation is bad in and of itself. Courage, as they say, isn't the opposite of fear. It's the determination to live by one's core principles under the circumstances that would most cause you to abandon them. As a society, I think we are facing a critical moment that is trying our values as much as anything. In my mind, key to those core values is the democratic idea that the good of the people is not best held by any one power, but is revealed in compromise.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
honorentheos wrote:You know, Why Me, I don't think having some fear or unease about the current situation is bad in and of itself. Courage, as they say, isn't the opposite of fear. It's the determination to live by one's core principles under the circumstances that would most cause you to abandon them. As a society, I think we are facing a critical moment that is trying our values as much as anything. In my mind, key to those core values is the democratic idea that the good of the people is not best held by any one power, but is revealed in compromise.
The american system itself creates fear. It has from its very beginnings. It is as if a black hole is following people around just waiting for them to fall in and engulf them. People are living in fear of losing jobs, homes, family, health care etc. And insecurity creates fear too. And there is much of that going around.
I see no values that are holding a common foundation together. I see nothing but a rejection of common values and more an exceptance of idenity values where all values need to be accepted as long as no one gets hurt.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
honorentheos wrote:Curious, how does one go about creating a true classless society? I've read a few views on this, but am interested in where you find inspiration.
A good read is the utopian socialists. Just google them. Of course, the abolishment of classes is difficult. The most that one can do is to create a less of separation of classes by implementing a system that puts stress on geniune equality. Democratic socialism did a good job in europe before they turned and adopted a more liberal democratic agenda of free market politics.
There can be some disagreement with this essay that I just linked to. But it is nutshell essay.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
honorentheos wrote:So what values do you propose we fight for, collectively as a nation? Specifically, please.
Put people before profit. And begin to build a foundation with those words as a conerstone.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:Thanks for weighing in Stem, and defending yourself from the perceived accusation that Mormons are 100% rightwingers.
Do you have anything to contribute as to why Mormons feel such a need to defend as you and your cohorts above have done?
Defending one's self/thoughts/actions is a pretty natural thing. I suppose that pretty much sums up why I think LDS folks will defend.
Any thoughts on the personal investment Mormons have in their religion, and by extension the politics which which many of them hold in common?
It seems to me that there is a large segment of Mormons who invest in their religion for the wrong reason--its more of a pride thing. Sadly that is a problem I think it not easily addressed. In my eyes the purpose of the religion is to teach us to learn the concept of love int eh fullest sense. Too often LDS folks don't get that.
Any thoughts on why Mormons are prone to take criticism and disagreement as personal attack?
Go and criticize any person's religion. religion is personal and hard to defend. It comes off as silly to others. Its a natural thing to want to defend that which you hold dear. That people hold religion so dear explains why any might perceive certain criticisms as personal attacks. Its not that giant of a leap.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.