Counter-Evidence Regarding Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage

[_Nevo]

I think the fact that Joseph had to lie to Emma and sneak around her back is a great indication of Emma's true beliefs in Joseph's calling as a prophet.

Is it?

Emma's biographers record that "Emma wanted a blessing from Joseph before he left for Carthage but there had been no time. Joseph told her 'to write out the best blessing [she] could think of and he would sign the same on his return.'.... She wrote what she called 'these desires of my heart.'" The blessing, written in her own hand, still exists and provides a glimpse into Emma's state of mind in the days leading up to her husband's assassination.

"I desire the Spirit of God to know and understand myself, that I desire a fruitful, active mind, that I may be able to comprehend the designs of God, when revealed through his servants without doubting. I desire a spirit of discernment, which is one of the promised blessings of the Holy Ghost.... I desire with all my heart to honor and respect my husband as my head, ever to live in his confidence and by acting in unison with him retain the place which God has given me by his side, and I ask my Heavenly Father that through humility, I may be enabled to overcome that curse which was pronounced upon the daughters of Eve."

In this candid self-appraisal, Emma apparently alludes to her struggles with the plural marriage doctrine and seems to attribute it (rightly or wrongly) to a lack of faith or discernment or humility on her part rather than to error on Joseph's part.

In spite of her difficulties with plural marriage, there is no evidence that Emma ever abandoned her belief in Joseph's prophetic claims. She died calling his name.

[_stemelbow]

Is it?

Emma's biographers record that "Emma wanted a blessing from Joseph before he left for Carthage but there had been no time. Joseph told her 'to write out the best blessing [she] could think of and he would sign the same on his return.'.... She wrote what she called 'these desires of my heart.'" The blessing, written in her own hand, still exists and provides a glimpse into Emma's state of mind in the days leading up to her husband's assassination.

"I desire the Spirit of God to know and understand myself, that I desire a fruitful, active mind, that I may be able to comprehend the designs of God, when revealed through his servants without doubting. I desire a spirit of discernment, which is one of the promised blessings of the Holy Ghost.... I desire with all my heart to honor and respect my husband as my head, ever to live in his confidence and by acting in unison with him retain the place which God has given me by his side, and I ask my Heavenly Father that through humility, I may be enabled to overcome that curse which was pronounced upon the daughters of Eve."

In this candid self-appraisal, Emma apparently alludes to her struggles with the plural marriage doctrine and seems to attribute it (rightly or wrongly) to a lack of faith or discernment or humility on her part rather than to error on Joseph's part.

In spite of her difficulties with plural marriage, there is no evidence that Emma ever abandoned her belief in Joseph's prophetic claims. She died calling his name.

What a magnificently difficult life she lived.

[cacheman]

Nevo, thanks for the information (and the earlier testimony of Emily Partridge). I have nothing but respect for you and your position.

[August 16, 1843] "This A.M. Joseph told me that since E[mma] came back from St. Louis she had resisted the P[riesthood] in toto and he had to tell her he would relinquish all for her sake. She said she would have given him E[liza] and E[mily] Partridge, but he knew if he took them she would pitch on him and obtain a divorce and leave him. He however told me he should not relinquish anything."

I guess the bolded text is the heart of the matter for me. Contrary to bcspace, Joseph didn't "make it right" with Emma but continued to tell her what she wanted to hear though he had no intentions of giving up plural marriage. He did not make things right until his plural marriages abruptly ceased.

If he was commanded to take plural wives without Emma's consent, it doesn't make sense that he would have given them up. The concealing and (apparently, from your quotes) threats suggest he was afraid of Emma and her reaction.

[_Runtu]

Is it?

Emma's biographers record that "Emma wanted a blessing from Joseph before he left for Carthage but there had been no time. Joseph told her 'to write out the best blessing [she] could think of and he would sign the same on his return.'.... She wrote what she called 'these desires of my heart.'" The blessing, written in her own hand, still exists and provides a glimpse into Emma's state of mind in the days leading up to her husband's assassination.

"I desire the Spirit of God to know and understand myself, that I desire a fruitful, active mind, that I may be able to comprehend the designs of God, when revealed through his servants without doubting. I desire a spirit of discernment, which is one of the promised blessings of the Holy Ghost.... I desire with all my heart to honor and respect my husband as my head, ever to live in his confidence and by acting in unison with him retain the place which God has given me by his side, and I ask my Heavenly Father that through humility, I may be enabled to overcome that curse which was pronounced upon the daughters of Eve."

In this candid self-appraisal, Emma apparently alludes to her struggles with the plural marriage doctrine and seems to attribute it (rightly or wrongly) to a lack of faith or discernment or humility on her part rather than to error on Joseph's part.

In spite of her difficulties with plural marriage, there is no evidence that Emma ever abandoned her belief in Joseph's prophetic claims. She died calling his name.

I'm not seeing the allusion to plural marriage. If the marriages had ceased by this time (June 1844), there doesn't seem to be a reason for her to be struggling with this issue.

I'm convinced she believed in Joseph as a prophet, but she also knew his weaknesses as a man. I suspect that she may have attributed plural marriage to his human failings rather than to revelation from God, but that's just my hunch.

[_Fence Sitter]

Is it?

I have a bit of a different take on this, though we probably agree in most areas.

I see Emma as a bit like the typical politician wife along with a very protective & loving mother. She would support her husband through thick and thin to a point but for her own ends. She was very aware and protective of her social standing both as a mother and as the wife of the prophet. She both cared for Joseph and despised him. If you look at her actions throughout her life, her decisions seems to based upon what was best for her (and her children) in both a social and economic sense but not a religious one. Her decisions not to involve herself with a church after her husband died (at least until her sons decided to take a role in the reorganized branch), how it was necessary to buy a carriage for her to bribe her to accept polygamy, to stay in Nauvoo where her property was, to marry a non Mormon, her continual vehement public disavowal of any polygamous practice by Joseph Smith through out her life even though she clearly knew otherwise even going so far as to convince her children of this lie, and her support for her son as a prophet of the reorganized church, all speak to what she really believed. When it came down to it her actions seemed to be motivated by economics and social standing not some firm belief in her husband as a mouth piece for God.

I think had she truly believed her husband saw and talked to God those decisions would be very different.

[_Morley]

....

I think had she truly believed her husband saw and talked to God those decisions would be very different.

I think that Emma believed that Joseph saw and talked to God. However, I think it's hard to always maintain that belief, especially when your husband tells you that God wants you to give him an extra piece of cake for supper. And, oh yeah, that God also wants him to eat some cake at other ladies' dinner tables.

[Guest]

I think that Emma believed that Joseph saw and talked to God. However, I think it's hard to always maintain that belief, especially when your husband tells you that God wants you to give him an extra piece of cake for supper. And, oh yeah, that God also wants him to eat some cake at other ladies' dinner tables.

Perhaps in the early years she believed this. But as with all marriages and relationships, her relationship to Joseph evolved over time. It is hard to gauge how much she actually believed in him as a treasure hunter turned prophet at that time. Did she really think he could find treasure in the hills around her fathers house? Was she really convinced that there were gold plates under that cloth? Did she really never take a peak to see what was really there? How did she react when she was pushed aside when Cowdery and Rigdon entered the picture? I tend to think she knew what was going on and was willing to accept it for a variety of reasons, though it is clear she was not always happy with it. As Joseph Smith's fame grew so would the attention on her. I think the simplest explanation about her reactions to polygamy is that it was a line she was not willing to cross because of how it would reflect on her. In the end she totally rejected it and even went so far as to create an illusion of non involvement by her husband, blaming it all on Brigham Young and thereby leaving herself as the widow of a 'true' prophet of God. Painting her as a believing faithful wife ignores much of how she acted when it really counted.

[_Jason Bourne]

For many people, it's a deal breaker.

For me, it wasn't so much a deal-breaker as it was the straw that broke the camel's back. You can only rationalize so much for so long, and this provided the clearest realization that I had been rationalizing an awful lot of stuff. After I stopped rationalizing Joseph's behavior, I ceased having any reason to rationalize the rest of the problematic.

Same for me.

[_Jason Bourne]

You may be right about this. Normally, couples shouldn't hide things from each other. And there is indeed something a bit unseemly about Joseph Smith sneaking around, sending furtive notes, holding doors closed, and so on. But I'm not sure it could have been otherwise. It seems to me that the choice before Joseph was to practice polygamy semi-secretly or not at all.

We don't have to guess at what would have happened had Emma been "in the loop" all along. We need look no further than the summer of 1843, when Joseph and Emma's conflict over plural marriage came to a head. The following excerpts from William Clayton's journal tell the story:

[May 23, 1843] "... President stated to me that he had had a little trouble with Sister E[mma]."

[June 23, 1843] "This A.M. President Joseph took me and conversed considerable concerning some delicate matters. Said [Emma] wanted to lay a snare for me.... he knew she was disposed to be revenged on him for some things. She thought that if he would indulge himself she would too."

[July 12, 1843] "This A.M. I wrote a Revelation consisting of 10 pages on the order of the priesthood, showing the designs in Moses, Abraham, David and Solomon having many wives and concubines &c. After it was wrote Presidents Joseph and Hyrum presented it and read it to E[mma] who said she did not believe a word of it and appeared very rebellious. Joseph told me to Deed all the unencumbered lots to E[mma] and the children. He appears much troubled about E[mma]."

[July 13, 1843] "This A.M. Joseph sent for me and when I arrived he called me up into his private room with E[mma] and there stated an agreement they had mutually entered into. They both stated their feelings on many subjects and wept considerable."

[August 16, 1843] "This A.M. Joseph told me that since E[mma] came back from St. Louis she had resisted the P[riesthood] in toto and he had to tell her he would relinquish all for her sake. She said she would have given him E[liza] and E[mily] Partridge, but he knew if he took them she would pitch on him and obtain a divorce and leave him. He however told me he should not relinquish anything."

[August 21, 1843] "E[mma] asked if I handed 2 letters to Joseph which she showed me. I had not done it. I satisfied her I had not. They appeared to be from E[liza] R Snow and President Joseph found them in his pocket. E[mma] seemed vexed and angry."

[August 23, 1843] "President Joseph told me that he had difficulty with E[mma] yesterday. She rode up to the Woodworths with him and called while he came to the Temple. When he returned she was demanding the gold watch of F[lora]. He reproved her for her evil treatment. On their return home she abused him much and also when he got home. He had to use harsh measures to put a stop to her abuse but finally succeeded."

In October 1843 Clayton reported Joseph telling him that "E[mma] was turned quite friendly and kind." Not coincidentally, Joseph's plural marriages abruptly ceased.

I find Emma's reactions to this quite normal and expected. Most women are not happy with their husbands sleeping with other women even if they are marrying them. Most Mormon women who accepted this struggled mightily with it before the obtained what they believed was a testimony that it was from God.

I don't blame Emma one whit for any of the above.

[_Fifth Columnist]

I can't believe I rationalized the way Joseph Smith practiced polygamy for so long. It is thoroughly disgusting.

My standard for a modern day prophet isn't all that high, but, at a minimum, I should be able to trust him enough to let my teenage daughter stay in his house without wondering whether he is having sex with her. If God can't find someone better than that to restore his one and only true church back to the earth, or even worse, if God actually approves of this behavior, then I don't want anything to do with God or his "servants."

What's even worse is that Joseph was able to exert this kind of influence over these women because they had a "spiritual" experience or confirmation. That should tell you something about the reliability of "spiritual" experiences.