Jack Welch and the Mopologist "Network"

[_moksha]

Any chance these Book of Mormonland tours could be expanded to include Cambodia and Thailand? It would be a treat for the participants to hear Dr. Peterson describe the wonder of Angkor Wat and perhaps snap a photo of Dan standing next to the Smiling Buddha.

[_Doctor Scratch]

It surely takes a certain amount of cleverness (and/or chutzpah?) to parlay a "non-profit" apologetic venture into a means of milking cruise companies for free trips around the globe.

As you pointed out, in Welch's case he might actually be getting paid, which makes it better than free.

Hi, Dr. Shades. That's a good point. I'm sure you noticed Dr. Peterson's response on this thread. It seems obvious that he's irked at the thought the Welch might be perceived as having more power, though clearly that's the case, given the Mopologist worship of Nibley. Welch had a closer relationship with Hugh Nibley, and therefore he holds more of "the keys," as it were.

What is striking to me is the fact that Welch has seemingly been under the radar for so long. Sure: he's published a ton of stuff---mostly ignored, irrelevant, non-polemical stuff---and yet he may very well be the most powerful person in Mopologetics. You really have to credit the man's subtlety and craftiness.

I think I may very well have been wrong in my assessment of the "hierarchy." The more I look into this, the more I realize that DCP is actually more of a capo regime than a "kingpin."

[_Doctor Scratch]

Any chance these Book of Mormonland tours could be expanded to include Cambodia and Thailand? It would be a treat for the participants to hear Dr. Peterson describe the wonder of Angkor Wat and perhaps snap a photo of Dan standing next to the Smiling Buddha.

Actually, I think you raise a very important point, Moksha. Dan's presence on these Middle East tours makes sense, given his scholarly expertise. But why is Jack Welch tagging along? Does his embarrassing work on chiasmus qualify him as an "expert" in the eyes of gullible TBMs? Did DCP have to go to bat for him, because "Daddy Jack" wanted a vacation, free of charge?

[_Daniel Peterson]

LOL. I'm certainly not going to make even the slightest effort to justify my lecturing on cruises and tours to you, Scratch. What an exercise in useless futility that would be!

But, for the sake of minimally fair-minded others who may be looking on, here are a few points:

People going on tours to Greece, Israel, Turkey, Jordan, and Egypt with me get background information on the sites and the areas we visit from somebody who has a doctorate in Arabic and an undergraduate degree in classical Greek, who has also studied Hebrew, Turkish, and Middle Egyptian; who has traveled extensively and often in the region and who has lived for a total of roughly five years in Israel and Egypt; who has spent much of his life studying, teaching, and writing on the history of the eastern Mediterranean. They learn about the Mamluks and the Ottomans, the Hasmoneans and the Nabateans, ‘Abd al-Malik's construction of the Dome of the Rock, the rise and fall of Byzantium, and many other things that, whatever Scratch says, I am completely unembarrassed about discussing.

Having my way and my wife's way paid to the Middle East isn't really all that big a perk to me. I've spent a lot of time in the region on a lot of occasions, and I still go there at least once or twice in a typical year. (I could go more, but try not to.) The fact is, though, that, if people want me to take them to the area, I'm simply not willing to fork over my own money to do so. They cover my expenses, or I don't go. My academic salary is not so lavish that I can afford to travel to the Middle East and spend weeks there every year out of my own pocket in order to take people around to the points of interest. Beyond having my expenses paid, I earn nothing from these trips. They cost me time, but I do love the area and its history and I enjoy introducing it to people.

Scratch is, of course, perfectly free to accuse me of "priestcraft" for leading such tours -- it's actually refreshing to see him launch a new angle of attack; he's been in something of a rut for the past several months, and I was beginning to wonder if, after five full years of his bizarre crusade against me, he had run out of energy and ideas and was now just going through the motions for old times' sake -- but anybody here is entirely welcome to sign on for one of these trips and see what I actually do.

***

As far as Jack Welch goes, it's screamingly funny to behold Scratch's utter cluelessness. Of course Jack Welch is a major, pivotal, central figure in Mormon scholarship and apologetics. This has never been even remotely a secret -- except, it seems, from the self-certified "expert" on the subject calling himself "Scratch." A quick look at Jack's bio on "Mormon Scholars Testify" illustrates Jack's importance very nicely:

http://mormonscholarstestify.org/2177/john-w-welch

Now, two or three decades behind the times, "Doctor" Scratch belatedly and dimly begins to sense what people who actually know something about Mormon apologetics and scholarship have understood for many years -- and, amusingly, tries to blame his own embarrassing ignorance on Jack Welch's supposed "subtlety and craftiness."

Too funny for words.

[Guest]

---

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

LOL. I'm certainly not going to make even the slightest effort to justify my lecturing on cruises and tours to you, Scratch...

2,000 words later


Too funny for words.

Oh my god. This guy is such a damned buffoon.

[_stemelbow]

Who is this Garbo character newly minted as another "I hate DCP" poster?

Hey DCP, I get it. I don't see any faults exposed here. I can't believe these loons though. Why others here just let it all go without mention is just weird. Joseph is decried for warning the board by everyone, it seems, as they make many threads dedicated to stamping out his stupid behavior, but posters like Scratch and this new Garbo person go unabated and sometimes encouraged by many.

I'll never understand it. Truly.

[_stemelbow]

Oh my god. This guy is such a f*****g buffoon.

You seem to have no idea how much this comes as projecting, Cam, do you?

[_Manfred]

...[Welch's] embarrassing work on chiasmus...

Hi, Scratch. What about Welch's work on chiasmus do you find "embarrassing"? Just curious.

[_Doctor Scratch]

Scratch is, of course, perfectly free to accuse me of "priestcraft" for leading such tours

Hi, Dr. Peterson. I think you're misunderstanding me slightly. If this is the result of me not fully articulating what I meant---well, then, you have my sincere apologies. If it's the result of poor reading comprehension on your part due to letting yourself get too upset, on the other hand....

In any event, I raised the issue of "priestcraft" because of the apparently religious/Mopologetic nature of the cruises. Above I tried to underscore the fact that I do think you're well-qualified to lead these tours on the basis of your scholarly training and expertise. But the fact that you *and* Welch are the "headliners" suggests something else. Know what I mean? (And did I miss something re: Welch's qualifications? I'm left with the impression that he's along for the ride mainly because of his status as a Mopologist.) If the cruises were strictly about the area and its culture/history, then one would expect to see another scholar akin to you. Instead, though, we've got the shadowy Prof. Welch. And as you yourself said, you are at least partially in it for the "freebies." (Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.)

As far as Jack Welch goes, it's screamingly funny to behold Scratch's utter cluelessness. Of course Jack Welch is a major, pivotal, central figure in Mormon scholarship and apologetics. This has never been even remotely a secret -- except, it seems, from the self-certified "expert" on the subject calling himself "Scratch." A quick look at Jack's bio on "Mormon Scholars Testify" illustrates Jack's importance very nicely:

http://mormonscholarstestify.org/2177/john-w-welch

Now, two or three decades behind the times, "Doctor" Scratch belatedly and dimly begins to sense what people who actually know something about Mormon apologetics and scholarship have understood for many years -- and, amusingly, tries to blame his own embarrassing ignorance on Jack Welch's supposed "subtlety and craftiness."

Too funny for words.

I'm glad your laughing, Dan. Again, though, I have to tap the tip of my nose in wonderment at your bizarre lapse in reading comprehension. It's not that I "didn't know" that Welch was important in terms of the founding of FARMS, chiasmus, etc. What strikes me as "new"/interesting are these revelations concerning his utter power---his ability to completely control an entire room of LDS historians, his hand in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, etc. I had been under the impression that he was basically a "background player" in terms of actual Mopologetics. That is, I knew he had founded FARMS, that he wrote articles, etc., but I was unaware of the amount of power that the guy wields. Based on the new information that has come to light, I'm beginning to wonder if it was actually Welch who ordered the various hit pieces and smear campaigns that have been conducted over the years.

I say that Welch is "subtle and crafty" because he has managed to stay mostly below the radar all this time. Meanwhile, you--and to a lesser extent, Midgley, Hamblin, and Gee, and a few others--have functioned as the "public face" of Mopologetics. As you might imagine, there is still a bit of disconnect for me in terms of Welch's public behavior and publications versus the miles-away antics of you and the more visible apologists. The biggest question for me is, If Welch has so much power, why does he tolerate this behavior? It suggests that he's got a side to his personality that he's very carefully hidden away from view.