Counter-Evidence Regarding Joseph Smith and Plural Marriage

[_just me]

An angel of death threatened him to obey the commandments of God.

So, in other words, it was third party rape.

Yup. You know Buff, I am shocked that so many can't see how sick this is.

The God of Joseph Smith was a third party RAPIST. Who on earth would want to worship such a thing?

[_Buffalo]

So, in other words, it was third party rape.

Yup. You know Buff, I am shocked that so many can't see how sick this is.

The God of Joseph Smith was a third party RAPIST. Who on earth would want to worship such a thing?

Some people, it seems, have no moral standards other than this one: obedience at all times. That doesn't seem like training for godhood at all. It seems a lot more like training for slavery.

[_just me]

Yup. You know Buff, I am shocked that so many can't see how sick this is.

The God of Joseph Smith was a third party RAPIST. Who on earth would want to worship such a thing?

Some people, it seems, have no moral standards other than this one: obedience at all times. That doesn't seem like training for godhood at all. It seems a lot more like training for slavery.

Some people may think that slavery (ie giving up our agency) is what is required.

I am also astounded that people think that informed consent is not important. I would blow a gasket if my husband was having unprotected sex with 30 or 40 other partners and I was not given that vital information. There were STD's going around Nauvoo. In what world is it okay to bring crap home to your wife? If she didn't want an open marriage she should not have been subjected to one. Not only the legal spouses, but each and every sex partner should have been informed of all the other sex partners so they could make an informed choice, too.

Also, CSA, if "god" told me to kill my family I would tell god to piss off. He could kill me, send me to hell, whatever. No damned way am I ever killing my family for god.
If god threatened to kill me if I didn't have sex with someone I would ask god why he is trying to rape me. But, more than that, I would know it wasn't god at all. God can't go against the Light of Christ.

[_Tarski]

. And if it is God who is commanding you to do it, you probably should not hesitate, regardless if your moral compass tells you that it is wrong.

Wow!
Insane idea. Think voices in head or 9-11 etc.

Religion is scary.


Personally if God told me to take sword to my son (a la Abraham) I would tell him to take hike (and maybe also conclude that he was not God after all--either that or, more likely, I had lost my mind and was hearing voices).

[_Fionn]

And you are simply looking to argue your point by suggesting that I think it is okay to do what is considered morally wrong. If God commanded you to bind your child and kill, like Abraham, you first better be sure that it is God that is commanding you to do this. And if it is God who is commanding you to do it, you probably should not hesitate, regardless if your moral compass tells you that it is wrong.

I would absolutely NOT, under any circumstances, murder my child. I would have your God destroy me before murdering my child. Then, if your God really wanted my child dead, he could do his own dirty work.

Statements like this one trouble me deeply. We know right from wrong. Allowing your conscience to be put aside for someone else's does not sit well with me.

[_Fence Sitter]

When has a true Prophet claimed that God cares about his sex life?

I don't believe a "true prophet' ever has. This does not seem to be a point in favor of Joseph Smith, unless you believe that sex was not part of Joseph Smith's plural marriages.

[_Buffalo]

I would absolutely NOT, under any circumstances, murder my child. I would have your God destroy me before murdering my child. Then, if your God really wanted my child dead, he could do his own dirty work.

Statements like this one trouble me deeply. We know right from wrong. Allowing your conscience to be put aside for someone else's does not sit well with me.

I'd sooner murder god and all his angels before murdering a child. Of course, it's easy to say that because the former are imaginary.

But even if God were real, I'd never kill anyone for him, let alone a child, let alone MY child.

[_Nomad]

... unless something unexpected comes up, I think it's safe to assume that there is no counter-evidence that Joseph Smith did not marry at least two women and consummate the marriages without the knowledge and consent of Emma Smith.

I haven't bothered to read the entire thread. Just scanned it. I find it hard to believe anyone is disputing the historical fact that Joseph Smith engaged in plural marriage and that at least some of those marriages were "consummated" and that he, on and off, kept Emma in the dark about what he was doing in order to avoid the conflict it produced in their relationship.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't think any of the facts surrounding the implementation of plural marraige reflect poorly on Joseph Smith. Not to say that it was all neat and tidy. It wasn't. How could it have been? But I think he did his best, under difficult circumstances, to comply with the commandments that had been given to him. I think Emma smith was quite a difficult person at times. I empathize with her trials and tribulations in life, but I also think she struggled with a lot of things like pride and desires for status and riches, etc. She alludes to some of those things in the letter Nevo (I think it was Nevo) cited earlier in this thread. so even she apparently recognized some of her problems.

Anyway, I don't see what the big deal is about polygamy. It has never bothered me. I think it served its purpose. I don't think it's coming back in our lifetimes. But I have no doubt it's a way of life for some (those who choose it) in the eternal world.

[_harmony]

The church today as they have in the past help with those who are starving and suffering in the world. The church is led by God through his Prophets and while his plan may seem difficult to understand, those within the church can see the higher purposes of why God commands these things.

Off topic.

Why is it that all sorts of self-proclaimed prophets think God cares about their sex life and wants them to have sex with all sorts of girls and women? What is it about cult/religious leaders that makes them think their sex life is important to God?

When has a true Prophet claimed that God cares about his sex life?

So you don't think Joseph, et al, was a true prophet?

[_harmony]

But I think he did his best, under difficult circumstances, to comply with the commandments that had been given to him.

You assume there was a commandment.

Others here don't make that assumption.

God is capable of ensuring a strong commitment among church leaderhip without using lies and sex. Those are Satan's tools.