What Would a Pioneer Think of the Church Today?

[_CSA]

I tend to agree, but what do you think has brought the church to this point? Is it the leadership or the backsliding membership?

Follow the prophet.

The pioneers of yesteryear would recognize that the church today is led by a living Prophet. And while it would seem that things have changed from what they were familiar with, they would recognize that God works through his Prophet and they would be accepting of whatever changes have taken place. The pioneers of yesterday believe as do current members that the restored gospel is true.

[_Fiannan]

The pioneers of yesteryear would recognize that the church today is led by a living Prophet. And while it would seem that things have changed from what they were familiar with, they would recognize that God works through his Prophet and they would be accepting of whatever changes have taken place. The pioneers of yesterday believe as do current members that the restored gospel is true.

Then by that admission then you believe that maybe in 100 years it would be okay for good LDS women to have tattoos, body piercings and to show them off by going topless to church dances?

I mean, if most of our standards in dress and manners that we believe are God-inspired are merely cultural toppings that connect with the restored Gospel, but are not actually the central point of it, then anything might be possible aside from any alterations of the 10 Commandments and the doctrine of the Atonement.

[_Fiannan]

Let's face it, the early Mormons were a pretty rebellious, colorful bunch of counter-culture radicals. They printed their own money, formed their own alphabet, tried to start their own country, formed their own army, practiced plural marriage, etc.

Then true Ron Paul supporters!

Ultimate irony is that in those days a priesthood holder was willing to face jail time to have 6 wives and dozens of kids while today to the average LDS man of having one wife and 6 kids would seem asking too much of him.

[_Fence Sitter]

I tend to agree, but what do you think has brought the church to this point? Is it the leadership or the backsliding membership?

I think it's correlation and the budget process that have made the church into one long, boring sacrament meeting.

I would be interested in why you think the budget process affected what the church looks like today.

[_LDSToronto]

I think they'd be surprised that we put carpet on the walls.

H.

[_dogmatic]

I don't think my early Mormon pioneer ancestors would recognize what has become of the Church

they'd say... why the heck is there a black person in the temple.

[_Fence Sitter]

I don't think my early Mormon pioneer ancestors would recognize what has become of the Church

they'd say... why the heck is there a black person in the temple.

He might also wonder about the changes to the temple ceremony itself. He would probably mutter something about how easy members had it now days. "Man when I went to the temple they threatened to cut my throat!!!!".

[_Runtu]

I would be interested in why you think the budget process affected what the church looks like today.

To me, Correlation has taken a lot of the social aspects out of the church. Rather than building a community, Correlation seeks to build unanimity of doctrine. And we've seen how everything is turning into one big sacrament meeting, with every activity requiring a gospel purpose. So, there's no room in the church for simple community building and socializing. The budget constraints have put even greater restrictions on the activities of church members: no activities farther than 90 minutes from the stake center, no "super-activities," no more "cultural refinement," no road shows, no regional activities, no dance festivals, and so on. Even the father-son campout is now a priesthood restoration commemoration, and the campfire is a testimony meeting. Girls camp is about YW values, and a lot of wards aren't even bothering with certification at camp. In my last ward, the budget for the 11-year-old scouts was a whopping $44. They couldn't do anything.

I honestly think someone in the hierarchy is deliberately sabotaging the church, trying to kill it with boredom.

[_Fence Sitter]

I would be interested in why you think the budget process affected what the church looks like today.

To me, Correlation has taken a lot of the social aspects out of the church. Rather than building a community, Correlation seeks to build unanimity of doctrine. And we've seen how everything is turning into one big sacrament meeting, with every activity requiring a gospel purpose. So, there's no room in the church for simple community building and socializing. The budget constraints have put even greater restrictions on the activities of church members: no activities farther than 90 minutes from the stake center, no "super-activities," no more "cultural refinement," no road shows, no regional activities, no dance festivals, and so on. Even the father-son campout is now a priesthood restoration commemoration, and the campfire is a testimony meeting. Girls camp is about YW values, and a lot of wards aren't even bothering with certification at camp. In my last ward, the budget for the 11-year-old scouts was a whopping $44. They couldn't do anything.

I honestly think someone in the hierarchy is deliberately sabotaging the church, trying to kill it with boredom.

Thanks Runtu. I participated in almost all of the activities you mentioned while growing up. Maybe the sports program is another one to add to that list.

[_GR33N]

I tend to agree, but what do you think has brought the church to this point? Is it the leadership or the backsliding membership?

The pioneers of yesteryear would recognize that the church today is led by a living Prophet. And while it would seem that things have changed from what they were familiar with, they would recognize that God works through his Prophet and they would be accepting of whatever changes have taken place. The pioneers of yesterday believe as do current members that the restored gospel is true.

I agree with the you, the pioneers of yesterday believe as do the current members that the restored gospel is true. As for what is defined as the church ie: members, buildings, systems, administration etc. that's not the gospel. We are talking about whether or not the pioneers would recognize the church.