True/False quiz about faith

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_brade
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True/False quiz about faith

Post by _brade »

Please assess each statement as either true or false:

1. Faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

2. If Bob has faith that P is true, then P is true.
_LDSToronto
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Re: True/False quiz about faith

Post by _LDSToronto »

brade wrote:Please assess each statement as either true or false:

1. Faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.


Tricky. If only considering up to the semi-colon, then I say TRUE. The 'which are true' qualifier throws a wrinkle in the mix. Am I hoping that thing in which I have faith is true? If so, I'm still going with TRUE. But, if the thing is presumed true, regardless of my faith, then I'd say FALSE, because I don't think one can know the truth of faith's object before hand.

2. If Bob has faith that P is true, then P is true.



FALSE.

H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
_brade
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Re: True/False quiz about faith

Post by _brade »

LDSToronto wrote:
brade wrote:Please assess each statement as either true or false:

1. Faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.


Tricky. If only considering up to the semi-colon, then I say TRUE. The 'which are true' qualifier throws a wrinkle in the mix. Am I hoping that thing in which I have faith is true? If so, I'm still going with TRUE. But, if the thing is presumed true, regardless of my faith, then I'd say FALSE, because I don't think one can know the truth of faith's object before hand.


Thanks for your response. So, if I had posted this for (1)

1. If ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

then you would have said 'false'. Correct?
_Tarski
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Re: True/False quiz about faith

Post by _Tarski »

brade wrote:Please assess each statement as either true or false:

1. Faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

2. If Bob has faith that P is true, then P is true.


the second half of 1 implies 2


P: If ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true
Q: If Bob has faith that P is true, then P is true

P implies Q

Am I close?
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
_LDSToronto
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Re: True/False quiz about faith

Post by _LDSToronto »

brade wrote:
Thanks for your response. So, if I had posted this for (1)

1. If ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

then you would have said 'false'. Correct?


I think so. Let me see if I can break it down more. If the phrase is:

1) If ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which [ye presume and hope] are true - I'd say this is TRUE, because it is me who is hoping for the truth of the thing in which I have faith. But, as I read it, the phrase means

2) If ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true [independent of whether your faith in those things exist] - I'd say this is FALSE because I think there needs to be an element of uncertainty, almost doubt, for there to be faith.

So, yes, if the phrase is read as 2, which is the way I usually read it, I say FALSE.

H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
_brade
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Re: True/False quiz about faith

Post by _brade »

Tarski wrote:
brade wrote:Please assess each statement as either true or false:

1. Faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

2. If Bob has faith that P is true, then P is true.


the second half of 1 implies 2


P: If ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true
Q: If Bob has faith that P is true, then P is true

P implies Q

Am I close?


You're right. I did it this way in part to check whether people were correctly inferring (2) from the second half of (1).
_Dantana
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Re: True/False quiz about faith

Post by _Dantana »

A subject that can never be visited too often, as it is the foundation of Deity based religion. If anyone is up for the challenge I'm betting on you Brade.

My question is, where does intellect stop and faith begin? What do we base our hope on?

I've been involved in discussions on the MAD board as to why did god take up the golden plates. The TBM consensus being that if they were still here it would be too much evidence and the world would all convert. So, God doesn't want to leave behind TOO much evidence, but he does go to the trouble of providing two sets of witnesses.....for our intellects.

God wants to convert people to his new restored gospel so he provides this wondrous book brought forth by a mere farm boy....It must be true! But he fails to provide anything other than testimonies.

He wants us to sit through endless hours of gospel doctrine study, for our intellects...so we can prove logically that we are the ones that have interpreted the scriptures correctly.

But it is all circular....there is no base to build on. The Bible is true, because it says so.
_LDSToronto
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Re: True/False quiz about faith

Post by _LDSToronto »

brade wrote:
Tarski wrote:
the second half of 1 implies 2


P: If ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true
Q: If Bob has faith that P is true, then P is true

P implies Q

Am I close?


You're right. I did it this way in part to check whether people were correctly inferring (2) from the second half of (1).


hey! Where's my gold star?

H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
_brade
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Posts: 875
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:35 am

Re: True/False quiz about faith

Post by _brade »

LDSToronto wrote:
hey! Where's my gold star?

H.


So, my interest is in investigating (2) as a Mormon belief. But, to investigate it as a Mormon belief I need to ground it as a Mormon belief. And, to do that I need people to see and accept that (2) follows from (1). Of course, I assume that most Mormons accept that (1) is true. But, I have a worry that a lot of people will not see the inference from (1) to (2), and so I decided to start my discussion of (2) in this way to check who actually gets the inference and who does not, so I can gauge how much work I need to put into fleshing out the inference before even addressing (2) for it's own sake...

...And If you pop over to MAD, where I've posted the same thread, you'll discover that my worry wasn't unfounded.
_Tarski
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Re: True/False quiz about faith

Post by _Tarski »

brade wrote:
LDSToronto wrote:
hey! Where's my gold star?

H.


So, my interest is in investigating (2) as a Mormon belief. But, to investigate it as a Mormon belief I need to ground it as a Mormon belief. And, to do that I need people to see and accept that (2) follows from (1). Of course, I assume that most Mormons accept that (1) is true. But, I have a worry that a lot of people will not see the inference from (1) to (2), and so I decided to start my discussion of (2) in this way to check who actually gets the inference and who does not, so I can gauge how much work I need to put into fleshing out the inference before even addressing (2) for it's own sake...

...And If you pop over to MAD, where I've posted the same thread, you'll discover that my worry wasn't unfounded.


The smart move for a Mormon is just to accept that the word faith is multivalent. There is faith and then there is faith.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
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