Some thoughts on the Flood

[_Runtu]

Just out of curiosity, do you have a reference for pre-Noah creatures not eating meat? I've never heard this before.

[_zeezrom]

One thing to consider is that for the earth to be covered with water, the overall mass of the planet would be greater than it is now. There is no way the earth could be covered with the water currently available and water does not degenerate or generate (except when you separate the Hs from the O). Water would have to come from Kolob or someplace. What would this extra mass do to the earth's crust? I know that if you pile dirt on the ground you get consolidation (up to 5-10 feet in areas north of Utah Lake).

[_Hoops]

Hoops, do you have the scripture references to no rain before the flood? Oh and do you have the one to no eating other animals before the flood?
Thanks!

Gen 2:5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.

Gen 1:30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

[_Runtu]

Gen 1:30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

Fascinating. I have never in my life read that scripture that way. I always figured it meant that plants were the originating stuff of all food in the food chain (which is sort of partially correct). In other words, herbivores eat the plants, which then are built into muscles, etc., which are then eaten by carnivores.

I guess I learn something new every day. You really are a literalist.

[_EAllusion]

Animals are specifically adapted to their food source - in many cases highly so. Those adaptations are utterly nonsensical in a world in which everything is a vegan. Many carnivores are giant prey-killing devices more than anything. So, in Hoops theology, that should minimally suggest a divinely foreordained massacre since everything was built with the after the fact results in mind.

I am kinda curious about the idea that there was no clouds or rain pre-flood. Clouds are a consequence of water evaporating into gas and re-condensing in the cooler sky. That is a consequence kinetic energy vs. bonding affinities of the elements involved. So why wouldn't this happen pre-flood? Where do the laws of physics break down? And if they do, those same laws are the reason that everything else works the way it does just the same. The human body couldn't function if that wasn't the case. Again, Hoops is left with just saying, "I don't know. It's magic," while acknowledging the scientific evidence is overwhelmingly against such an idea. Then, you have to imagine that he thinks that the evidence for his literal interpretation of the Bible being the truthful communication of an all-knowing sky-god is greater than whatever dis-confirmation science can offer. What could that evidence possibly be?

[_just me]

The world wasn't warm enough to make evaporation possible back then.
Also, they couldn't boil water.

No clouds, no rainbows, but they did have unicorns. Now we have clouds and rainbows but no unicorns.

It just isn't fair.

[_Hoops]

Animals are specifically adapted to their food source - in many cases highly so. Those adaptations are utterly nonsensical in a world in which everything is a vegan. Many carnivores are giant prey-killing devices more than anything. So, in Hoops theology, that should minimally suggest a divinely foreordained massacre since everything was built with the after the fact results in mind.

I've explained how that is biblically possible.

I am kinda curious about the idea that there was no clouds or rain pre-flood. Clouds are a consequence of water evaporating into gas and re-condensing in the cooler sky. That is a consequence kinetic energy vs. bonding affinities of the elements involved. So why wouldn't this happen pre-flood? Where do the laws of physics break down?

Who said it did?

And if they do, those same laws are the reason that everything else works the way it does just the same. The human body couldn't function if that wasn't the case.

How do you mean.

Again, Hoops is left with just saying, "I don't know. It's magic," while acknowledging the scientific evidence is overwhelmingly against such an idea.

I'm not saying that and I don't acknowledge that.

[_Hoops]

The world wasn't warm enough to make evaporation possible back then.
Also, they couldn't boil water.

What do you mean?

[_Themis]

I have as much confidence in you as you do in me.

I think you are a nice guy. Recognizing extreme ignorance does not mean I think I am a better person, but I realize that many will get offended for bringing it up. Many people in my own life also have little to no knowledge of science

Perhaps. I thought they might good points for discussion.

Unfortunately not when one has so little knowledge they cannot understand why things do not work they way they are surmising. I don't discuss this issue with my own parents simply because they do not have the basics to understand why they are wrong. They are intelligent people as I am sure you are, but bias to certain beliefs and lack of even the basics makes it almost impossible. It's not important in their lives so I don't worry about it. They know lots of things I do not, and it's not something that is going to really make a difference in their lives.

Of course you are. These discussions inevitably descend to this. See below.

No, it is usually mistakenly seen this way because I have spoken things that you may not like, and probably disagree with.

I can say the same of you. And do.

It's a possibility. :) I did at one time believe as you did at a very young age, but my interests in science put me on a path of learning starting in Junior High and continuing in university which changed my understanding. I realize my parents did not have this understanding, nor could they obtain it without a lot more hours then they would probably ever be interested enough to do.

How utterly magnaminous. What your forgetting, or choosing to ignore, is that we know that the earth, and its inahbitants, experienced a dramatic and incomprehensible change during the flood. I'm not sure one would EXPECT science to always match up.

What it is that we know, and how do we know this? There is so much scientific knowledge and facts that show no Global flood occurred. People continued to live before during and after any flood event was supposed to have taken place. SO much evidence supports this from so many different and independent scientific disciplines.

[_Hoops]

I always figured it meant that plants were the originating stuff of all food in the food chain (which is sort of partially correct). In other words, herbivores eat the plants, which then are built into muscles, etc., which are then eaten by carnivores. .

If there was no death before the fall, how could a lion eat a Thompson's Gazelle?