Eternal Family Relationships

[_stemelbow]

How do we know that there'll be "perfect love and respect" in heaven? I must have missed that talk.

That's my idea of heaven, Morley.

[Guest]

Hey Fence Sitter, sorry to disappoint you. I dn't have much beyond vague descriptions. Why? Because I can't see it or know it. I only trust it'll be grand. I don't know what more one could want then perfect love and respect between each other. Sounds blissfull to me. I struggle to understand how that is unappealing. But people find many things unappealing that I actually enjoy, so what can I say? I love basketball (like Hoops), but others don't see the appeal. I can't make an argument for basketball that'll convince them, so I leave it to personal preference. It appears this is somewhat the same. Maybe that's why there are many mansions.

I am not disappointed. And I accept the description you have given. (I am with you and Hoops on the BB thing- life long fan and long time gym rat here.) My question to you isn't disputing the description you have given. It looks like we agree on how vague it is. The difference between us may be that I am uncomfortable basing life decisions on these vague promises of an afterlife. It is a reoccurring theme in religion. Each has their own vague notion of some Nirvana and adherents are expected to make important decisions because of these promises. It is almost like I was trying to convince you to go to a particular University by saying "You will really love it, lots of great things are there, it is way better than anything else you have known." But when pressed I would have to admit that I didn't really have any specific details regarding curriculum, reputation, course load, available areas of study, specific instructors and so on. Not really a great way to make a life decision.

I suppose in the end I do not understand why people spend their entire lives working toward such a vague notion.

[_Morley]

How do we know that there'll be "perfect love and respect" in heaven? I must have missed that talk.

That's my idea of heaven, Morley.

Got it. Thanks. I was wondering if it was doctrinal.

[_stemelbow]

I suppose in the end I do not understand why people spend their entire lives working toward such a vague notion.

I can't speak for others, but for me its because of faith, hope and charity (charity in the LDS sense of pure love as per Christ).

[_LDSToronto]

I suppose in the end I do not understand why people spend their entire lives working toward such a vague notion.

I can't speak for others, but for me its because of faith, hope and charity (charity in the LDS sense of pure love as per Christ).

Stem, this is interesting, because you are placing faith in a vague notion of something better, but I have to wonder what it is that you are hoping for, and what has driven this faith in an invisible world?

H.

[_stemelbow]

Stem, this is interesting, because you are placing faith in a vague notion of something better, but I have to wonder what it is that you are hoping for

Well in Buffalo's thread in which he seems to mock the notion of believing in Jesus I explain myself better in terms of what I hope for. I hope for a better world/environment for others. It tears me to pieces thinking on some peoples situations. I wonder if I could live with myself, knowing of some people's situations, if I didn't hope for something eternally grand for those who suffer. That hope I see as something that keeps me sane.

, and what has driven this faith in an invisible world?

H.

Everytime I refer to faith it ends up in people misunderstanding me, or so it seems. Its hard for me to convey, i guess. Anyway, with that said, what drives my faith? Evidence, essentially. God has given me reason to have faith.

[_Fence Sitter]

Stem,

The notions you describe are all well and good, but they do not distinguish you from any other religion. Can you address any of the issues I raised in my OP?

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

I'm interested in the ideas of eternity being either living in time and space or outside time and space. This isn't a concept I remember ever hearing about in church. I always pictured an eternity of time and space, being literal-minded to begin with (and being in a literal-minded religion).

I'm wondering how the Mormon eternity could possibly be outside time and space, considering the principle of "eternal progression" and all. How can God exist outside time and space when he has to manage a world(s) that are in time and space? How can parents who lose a baby on this earth raise it in the hereafter if there is no time and space? Would they be simply caring for an infant for eternity, and that infant would never progress?

What about the lost ten tribes and the City of Enoch. Are they supposed to be existing outside of time and space until they are reunited with earth?

What did you believe (or presently believe) about time and space? Can this sealing process and eternal family relationships possibly make any sense either way?

[_stemelbow]

at your request I am addressing the "issues" you raised, Fence Sitter:

1. I don't think any of us conceptualize eternity in either of its manifestations. Either as an endless progression of time or as some sort of existence outside of time. Not understanding what either of those concepts involve means we don't really know what it means to 'live' eternally with anyone or what eternal marriage actually is.

Fine by me. I see no "issue" here, really.

2. As LDS we existed before this life as individuals for a REALLY long time (or maybe it was outside of time), I assume we are going to get all those memories back and I also assume that the short 70 years we have lived here will suddenly look like the blink in time it really is, yet for some reason this blink in time determines who we want to dwell with for eternity instead of those previous memories. This does not make much sense to me.

I'm sure what the issue here is either, other than it doesn't make much sense to you. Seeing this life as eternally important isn't a problem for me, even though its a mere blip in our existences.

3. I have been married for over 30 years. I have been blessed with both a loving spouse and 5 great sons. I also have a large extended active LDS family with whom I get along with very well. Both my parents are still alive and living active faithful LDS lives. I would not change much about my life. (Except the size of my bank account maybe.) All that said, as I look back over this short time period and realize that all those relationships have been very dynamic. At times I am closer to my wife than others. Sometimes I communicate a lot with my parents and others not. The point I am making is in a short period of time relationships change (I think that is both a positive and negative). Why do we assume that being together for eternity is even going to be a good thing after a few hundred thousand years?

I can't speak for your experience, Fence Sitter. What I look forward to is having perfectly loving and respectful relationships with everyone. It'll be a great day for me. I want strong lasting relationships, beyond the level of relationship we make here. I want it. I can't help that I want it. It appears you struggle with the idea. As I said I like basketball others don't.

4. What are we going to be doing for eternity that is so important that we be doing it together as a family? I think for the truly faithful the reward is the ability to procreate and organize more worlds. I have raised five sons. I loved it, I love seeing my grand kids but life moves on. I don't picture eternal fatherhood as a reward. I don't see creating my 700 billionth world as something to look forward to. It seems to me at some point, maybe in a few hundred thousand years or a few billion, that it will just be another world with a few hundred billion children who treat each other horribly to look after. This whole endless creation concept seems to look like one long unending Stepford wives saga.

I simply don't see it that way. I see it as a way to create oppoturnities to help others become what they want. I see it as a way to give people opportunity and do all I can to help them.

5. Supposedly we are all God's children. Why do we believe that it is more important to be around those we have got to know well in this short time span then any of the rest of his children?

I hope its clear I don't view it as you describe here. I want to spend my time with all those who will learn to fully appreciate and love each other. I'll be around billions..not just those I meet here.

6. My mother-in-law was a piece of work. Abusive and an alcoholic who treated her family very badly at times. After she passed away her daughters had her sealed to them. I asked why they wanted to be sealed to her given how she treated them. They have this concept that all her bad personality traits will go away and she be this wonderful person to be with in the here after, which to me means she is not the same person. I like some of my faults and I even liked some of my mother-in-laws faults some of the time. This concept of one big happy family is troublesome and frankly boring. That which makes us different is important, sometime difficult but important none the less.

As I said, boring and troublesome doesn't compute well with me on this topic. can't help ya.

[_jon]

Eternal Relationships are all well and good as an ideal for people to aim for. But to be honest, they'll take care of themselves. Get the relationships right now, enjoy them now, build them now, with family and friends. Remove the barriers, especially the religious barriers, before it's too late and you're left regretting the passing of a loved one because you didn't have a good relationship with them.

Just my two cents on the topic...