Mormon official challenges 'cult' designation

[_Simon Belmont]

what, in your opinion, are the key hallmarks of a cult?

Control over a group of people.

[_jon]

what, in your opinion, are the key hallmarks of a cult?

Control over a group of people.

What kind of control?

[_Simon Belmont]

What kind of control?

What do you mean by "what?"

(we can continue to ask these stupid questions of one another for a long, long time.)

[_jon]

What kind of control?

What do you mean by "what?"

(we can continue to ask these stupid questions of one another for a long, long time.)

I'm interested in finding out your opinion about how a cult exerts control over it's membership and how that differs from the Church (oJCoLDS)?

[_Runtu]

My position on this has been pretty consistent, as long as I can remember. "Cult" is one of those words that doesn't add to a conversation. It's sort of a catch-all pejorative that usually means "a religion I don't agree with." You can't have a meaningful discussion with someone when you label them "deluded" or tell them they belong to a "cult."

[_Simon Belmont]

I'm interested in finding out your opinion about how a cult exerts control over it's membership and how that differs from the Church (oJCoLDS)?

Think "Heaven's Gate." The guy had enough control to make a group of people commit suicide!

That's probably more along the lines of what a "cult" actually is.

Also, Golden Dawn, Argenteum Astrum, and Thelema, in my opinion, began as cults -- Thelema in Crowley's time, but I'm unsure about it now. I think it's officially recognized as a religion in the UK. I don't think Golden Dawn or A:.A:. are practiced anymore (could be wrong).

[_Runtu]

Think "Heaven's Gate." The guy had enough control to make a group of people commit suicide!

That's probably more along the lines of what a "cult" actually is.

Also, Golden Dawn, Argenteum Astrum, and Thelema, in my opinion, began as cults -- Thelema in Crowley's time, but I'm unsure about it now. I think it's officially recognized as a religion in the UK. I don't think Golden Dawn or A:.A:. are practiced anymore (could be wrong).

Again, the designation of "cult" is just not helpful. A lot of people think the LDS church is a cult because Joseph Smith "had enough control to make a group of people" surrender their wives and property to him. People killed and were killed for Joseph Smith. Does that make the LDS church a cult?

Be careful what you label, because the label can just as easily be used against you.

[_Simon Belmont]

Be careful what you label, because the label can just as easily be used against you.

I realize that, and that's why I implied that Thelema is probably not a cult now.

The LDS Church could have been classified as a cult in its early days.

As could the rest of Christianity.

[_jon]

I'm interested in finding out your opinion about how a cult exerts control over it's membership and how that differs from the Church (oJCoLDS)?

Think "Heaven's Gate." The guy had enough control to make a group of people commit suicide!

That's probably more along the lines of what a "cult" actually is.

Also, Golden Dawn, Argenteum Astrum, and Thelema, in my opinion, began as cults -- Thelema in Crowley's time, but I'm unsure about it now. I think it's officially recognized as a religion in the UK. I don't think Golden Dawn or A:.A:. are practiced anymore (could be wrong).

I tend to agree that there is a scale of 'control' along which organisations operate. The organisation gets more extreme and the mind control heavier as you move along the scale. At what point something becomes a 'cult' I don't know. I'm sure some very clever psychologists could model this and identify the point.

I think the Church will sit on the scale somewhere. Does the Church exert some control over it's members? Undoubtedly, through peer pressure or the behaviour/reward metric. Does this make it a 'cult'? In the academic sense, probably not.

I do think local leadership has a direct influence over where the local ward/branch sits on the control scale, more so than Church central.
I also think Church central would like more control over ward operations than it currently has.

(not so stupid questions after all...)

[_Themis]

My position on this has been pretty consistent, as long as I can remember. "Cult" is one of those words that doesn't add to a conversation. It's sort of a catch-all pejorative that usually means "a religion I don't agree with." You can't have a meaningful discussion with someone when you label them "deluded" or tell them they belong to a "cult."

Again Runtu is the one to get it right. The word cult is almost always used to attack another group.