Shut Your Mouth and Fake It

[_DrW]

"Shaken Faith Syndrome", "Lost Faith", and "Falling Away" are Mormon-speak terms. Casting off "Mormon speak" is an important step in casting off the fog of religion and exchanging it for the clarity of reason, logic and critical thinking.

Leaving the LDS Church should be seen for what it is; an act of courage and self-determination.

Those of us who have found the courage to leave and explain to others why we have left, should never talk about "losing the faith". We should talk instead about the reality of the situation, which is "finding the truth".

In my case, I'd say it was "." But you're right: leaving the LDS church takes tremendous humility, courage, and resolve. Contrary to what some people think, it's not "the easy way."

For those to whom the truth is self evident, I fully agree that "acknowledging the truth" is the proper way to describe the process. I would say that I probably fit best into that category as well.

For some folks, however (including my wife), there really does have to be a process of searching and discovery. She had no real innate sense that the "gospel" according to the LDS Church was a large load of baloney. Once she was willing to even consider the idea, it took some effort on her part to determine that such was the case.

[_jon]

For those to whom the truth is self evident, I fully agree that "acknowledging the truth" is the proper way to describe the process. I would say that I probably fit best into that category as well.

For some folks, however (including my wife), there really does have to be a process of searching and discovery. She had no real innate sense that the "gospel" according to the LDS Church was a large load of baloney. Once she was willing to even consider the idea, it took some effort on her part to determine that such was the case.

If you don't mind me asking, what prompted your wife to take that first exploratory step into questioning and searching?

[_Runtu]

For those to whom the truth is self evident, I fully agree that "acknowledging the truth" is the proper way to describe the process. I would say that I probably fit best into that category as well.

For some folks, however (including my wife), there really does have to be a process of searching and discovery. She had no real innate sense that the "gospel" according to the LDS Church was a large load of baloney. Once she was willing to even consider the idea, it took some effort on her part to determine that such was the case.

What I meant is that I knew about all the problematic issues in the church for years before I acknowledged their implications. I made all kinds of excuses, and some of those excuses make me ashamed of myself. When I finally acknowledged to myself that my excuses didn't work, it was as if a heavy weight lifted off my soul. Yes, it precipitated 2 years of fighting with my wife, but I knew it was right.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

We should talk instead about the reality of our situation, which is "finding the truth".

You believe you have the truth, and so do the faithful.

Neither of you can prove it.

So what makes you believe you have it, while others don't?

It's a lot easier to know what isn't true than to know what is true. And by "know" I mean to have such a high degree of certainty that it really isn't worth worrying about. I know the church isn't true.

[Guest]

We should talk instead about the reality of our situation, which is "finding the truth".

You believe you have the truth, and so do the faithful.

Neither of you can prove it.

So what makes you believe you have it, while others don't?

Simon,

Looks as though you have decided to pitch slow softballs today.

When it comes to describing reality based on credible, verifiable, reproducible, physical evidence, science wins and religion loses. As we have discussed before, this is pretty much by definition.

While science bases its claims about how the world works on physical evidence, religion must base its claims on faith (unfounded belief).

To the extent that religion can be proven wrong by science (and the extent is substantial to be sure), then religion does not represent the truth.

You know Simon, we have gone over this before. Were you not paying attention?

[Guest]

For those to whom the truth is self evident, I fully agree that "acknowledging the truth" is the proper way to describe the process. I would say that I probably fit best into that category as well.

For some folks, however (including my wife), there really does have to be a process of searching and discovery. She had no real innate sense that the "gospel" according to the LDS Church was a large load of baloney. Once she was willing to even consider the idea, it took some effort on her part to determine that such was the case.

If you don't mind me asking, what prompted your wife to take that first exploratory step into questioning and searching?

I don't mind at all. And it is hard to say.

Clearly, as Rantu mentioned, things that just don't make any sense started to pile up for her. One big straw was Proposition 8 and the Church stand on gays. This debacle caused one of the leading families in our ward to leave the Church en masse, from one day to the next. Unlike most of the women in the ward, my wife continued to stay in contact with the matriarch of that family and I know that doubts were planted from those conversations.

(This family had a son who came out as gay after returning from an honorable mission. He was immediately ostracized by the local members as were his parents to some extent. This kid was bright and funny and as it has turned out, has become extremely successful financially.)

The tipping point probably came one evening on a long walk when I was talking with her about the Joseph Smith. She is BIC and did not believe that Joseph Smith committed adultery, or was drunk in public, or lied about being engaged in polygamy. I told her that I would be glad to go to LDS approved websites and show her that all of this was true.

That evening, I queued up the sites and invited her into my office to start reading. When I saw the tears begin to run down her cheeks, I left. She didn't say much that evening. Next time we talked about the Church, it was clear that she had graduated to NOM status.

My wife loves the LDS Church and many of the people in it. Reading the truth about Joseph Smith, which had NOT been taught to her as a faithful member, she felt betrayed. In much the same way that a wife who has been cheated on will sometimes stay with the adulterous husband out of a sense of loyalty, my wife stays associated with the Church. But the "love" and the "trust" are gone. Believe me.

She is now helping me to inoculate our TBM children and (potential TBM) grandchildren so that the transition will not be so traumatic for them when the time comes - and it will come.

[_harmony]

My wife loves the LDS Church and many of the people in it. Reading the truth about Joseph Smith, which had NOT been taught to her as a faithful member, she felt betrayed.

Been there, done that, although I am not BIC. Perhaps it's worse for BIC; perhaps worse for converts. I didn't cry softly though. I shredded people and things and relationships and the boards.

It was not a good time to be my family.

[_moksha]

I say feel free to express disagreements to family and friends, knowing some family and friends might not be happy about it. But if yougo to church, you might as well stay quiet and let believers worship as they please.

Good point, who wants to hear a bunch of squabbling when they go to Church. Outside of meetings, it does seem important to be able to state your own authentic beliefs.

[_zeezrom]

It breaks my heart to know people have to fake it. Self-imposed exile and imprisonment. Perhaps the story of the Israelites in Egypt or Babylon hits a chord with these people?

[_Simon Belmont]

Some of us aren't interested in proving it. For me, what tells me that I have the truth is this:

1. No more excuses. I don't have to make excuses for things that aren't right or don't make sense. I don't have to excuse polyandry, mistranslations of papyri, anachronistic scriptures, etc. When I stopped making excuses, I realized that everything made sense.

But Runtu, I don't make those excuses either.

I don't expect to convince you or anyone else of anything, Simon. But I know what's right in my life.

I know, and I respect your position.