Why I lost my virginity

[_Abaddon]

Anyone else commit a sin (any sin) because they had already committed it "in your heart"?

The year was 1999. It was June. I was supposed to be preparing for a mission. I was dating a girl that was more forward than any other girl I had dated before (she was a Mormon).

Late at night on a Saturday, she invited me into a dark bedroom where we proceeded to commence with heavy necking and petting. I was lusting this girl with my whole heart yet I knew I should stop and I was planning on it. But then a thought came to my head from the scriptures about lusting after a woman and already committing adultery in your heart.

I had the willpower to stop. I remember it clearly. But I also remember feeling that I had already committed the sin in my heart so what's the difference now? I proceeded to let the girl go all the way (she was the aggressive one). In retrospect, I wish I would've tried to enjoy it more instead of being so nervous and scared.

I KNOW for a fact that the church doesn't punish "sins of the heart" like they punish "sins of the flesh."

I'm curious if anyone else fell into the same rationalization I made based on what you were taught about "sinning in your heart".

LOL!

That's one of the more pathetic excuses I've ever heard for having fornicated.

I imagine you weren't as hesitant the next time, although the rationalization changed to: "well, I've already done it now, so ..."

Funny how that works, huh?

It is funny, but I'm probably not laughing in the same way you are.

Actually, you're wrong about what I did the next time. Because after I committed this sin I went to my Bishop and was disfellowshipped and remained on the straight and narrow...for a while at least.

[_Greg Jordan]

Having known both Jason and Dan for a number of years now, I can attest that both men are of the highest caliber and anyone who had an opportunity to be in the wards where they served as bishop were lucky, indeed.

Would you be comfortable with either of these men asking your daughter in private whether she had participated in an act of coitus interruptus?

[_Abaddon]

I think you were a hormonal, undersexed teenager who wanted to have sex and I think you rationalized a justification for that desire within the theological worldview that you accepted at the time. Had Matthew 5:28 and its counterparts not existed, I think there is a pretty high possibility you would have lost your virginity that night just the same.

That doesn't mean there weren't issues with the way you were taught abstinence, or even what you were taught about Matthew 5:28. But I don't think Matthew 5:28 caused you to lose your virginity.

I'm just glad you've never applied similar reasoning to what 1 John 3:15 teaches regarding hatred and murder. At least, I hope that you haven't.

Hmmm....you may be right, but I don't remember feeling completely hormonal and undersexed at the time. (This next comment might be Telestial material, so be warned.) As a matter of fact, I didn't even "finish" if you know what I mean. I was so stunned at what was happening. The girl really took charge and when she had her fun, I was still in shock at what took place.

And I'm glad I didn't know 1 John 3:15. At least at the time (and now) I don't hate anybody that I can think of. So I think I'm good with not applying that one in my life, haha.

[_Abaddon]

I wasn't religious when I lost my innocence, so there was no guilt or shame attached. My religious inexperience notwithstanding, I have to say that your story shows a lack of common sense - thinking about having sex and having sex are two *really* different things and it seems a bit dim to equate the two, regardless of what the Bible says. Most teen boys imagine having lots of sex (even the religious ones); none, I would suspect, think it's just as good as having actual sex.
H.

I agree with you; I did show a lack of common sense. I was taught from the scriptures and from leaders that lusting after a woman is a very bad sin and like adultery.

Oh well. I was curious if any other teenager was as dumb as I was on that one. It appears I'm in the minority.

Super.

[_Abaddon]

Anyone else commit a sin (any sin) because they had already committed it "in your heart"?

The year was 1999. It was June. I was supposed to be preparing for a mission. I was dating a girl that was more forward than any other girl I had dated before (she was a Mormon).

Late at night on a Saturday, she invited me into a dark bedroom where we proceeded to commence with heavy necking and petting. I was lusting this girl with my whole heart yet I knew I should stop and I was planning on it. But then a thought came to my head from the scriptures about lusting after a woman and already committing adultery in your heart.

I had the willpower to stop. I remember it clearly. But I also remember feeling that I had already committed the sin in my heart so what's the difference now? I proceeded to let the girl go all the way (she was the aggressive one). In retrospect, I wish I would've tried to enjoy it more instead of being so nervous and scared.

I KNOW for a fact that the church doesn't punish "sins of the heart" like they punish "sins of the flesh."

I'm curious if anyone else fell into the same rationalization I made based on what you were taught about "sinning in your heart".

You "lost" your virginity because you are a normal and healthy human being with normal and healthy sexual urges.

The only person that can "punish" you is yourself. The church has no power over you except what you give them. in my opinion, there is no man-God sitting in the sky to judge you. You are your own judge and how you feel about it is all that matters.

There are consequences to engaging in sexual relations (most of them utterly fabulous), so be aware of them, and do not allow a religious organization to define for you what you should define for yourself (how to engage in sexual relations on your terms). That is a recipe for a lot of guilt, self loathing and low self esteem.

Believe me: I know that NOW.

I'm talking about something that happened over 10 years ago. But anyway, I couldn't agree with you more.

[_Abaddon]

It's disappointing to learn that apostates had lamer rationalizations for why they sinned then I do. I had assumed they were better.

I am 1 apostate. There are much better rationalizations than what I had.

But still, you're rationalization about God wanting a 30+ year old man to have sex with a 13 year old still takes the cake for rationalizations.

So let's not go down the path of rationalizations, because you're rationalizations to keep the faith are FAR more ridiculous than mine were to sin.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Having known both Jason and Dan for a number of years now, I can attest that both men are of the highest caliber and anyone who had an opportunity to be in the wards where they served as bishop were lucky, indeed.

Would you be comfortable with either of these men asking your daughter in private whether she had participated in an act of coitus interruptus?

Bingo.

I've already talked to my ex-wife, and my two girls about this. I said that under no circumstance are they (the girls) to talk to a Mormon leader, alone, about their sexuality. I think it's bizarre, and ends up shaming the child which is unnecessary.

[_Abaddon]

This is really one of the dumbest damn threads I have seen on this board. Right from the OP (why one would post publicly about such things is beyond me) to the end.
<snip>

I don't understand why it is so damn dumb.

This happened over 10 years ago; I'm not embarrassed about it. I was curious if anyone else had misinterpreted a common teaching about "thinking" sin and "doing" sin.

There have been some pretty dumb threads out there, but I reject this is one of them.

An indirect enjoyment of the whole thread was reading 'The Nehor' explain how irrational my thinking was. If that's not one of the most ironic things coming from the kings and queens of rationalization (Mormon Apologists) than I don't know what is.

That comment alone gives this thread some redeeming quality, although it wasn't expressly necessary.

[_malaise]

Gee, I lost my virginity because I was horny.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Thank you, Jason and Liz.

Are you attempting to convince us you have a life other than this message board?

I wanted to respond to your important post earlier, but I've been busy.

On Friday, I was entertaining my brother-in-law, who was visiting from Portland, and then, that evening, my wife and I were guests at a barbecue up in Salt Lake Valley put on by my former Jerusalem Intensive Arabic students. One of them has just moved back to the United States from Jordan with his family; another was visiting with his wife and kids from Qatar. It was a lot of fun.

Saturday was spent entirely on my niece's wedding, her wedding luncheon, and her reception. A long day, but very satisfying.

Today, I spent most of the morning preparing to teach a lesson on Acts 6-9. (Partly in preparation for the class but mostly to keep some of my languages current, I always try to read the text of the lesson in the King James Version, a modern English translation, the German Einheitsübersetzung, the standard Arabic translation, and the original Greek. I realize that this would require only a few minutes from a sophisticate like yourself, but it actually takes me a bit of time.) Then I spent three hours at my local ward. Afterward, my wife and I prepared for and hosted a dinner for all of the extended family who could make it (twenty-six people, besides my own family), in honor of my nephew and his fiancé, who will be married in the St. Paul Minnesota Temple in slightly less than two weeks.

But to your question: No, I have no life apart from this board.

When I vacation, I go with just with my wife......

Yeah - like last week in Colorado as you have emphasized. Yet you never missed a day posting here last week - now that's a real vacation, getting away from the "board" w your wife!

Actually, I did miss days. But it's true that I posted nine times, altogether, during the period that I was in Las Vegas and in Estes Park, using my iPhone. (I was gone seven full days, and the better part of two additional days.) My posts were, on average, two lines long.

And let's not forget your classic response from this past weekend when I noted your midnight posting on a weekend nite!:

I had just returned from a concert in Salt Lake City.

And the first thing one does is jump on the computer to post on message boards?

I typically stay up until 2 AM, and, since many of my contacts write to me (where I live in the portion of Provo known as "Orem") from such areas of Provo as "Cairo," "Cologne," "Zürich," "London," and "Riyadh," which are in different Provo time zones, I always get on my computer fairly late at night.

Hey, do it every weekend! NOT! Let me send you a great book on romance and affection. Won't find the word "keyboard" in it though!

Feel free to send me a free book, on any topic. My mailing address can be found on the BYU Website.

And it looks like a typicL week in your life so far - posting here from "wake-up to retiring at night". What 10-20-30 posts a day.

Actually, the figure given by this website is 4.68 daily.

You may have confused me with your friend and ideological fellow traveler Buffalo, whose daily average appears to be 20.20 posts.

But I'm more than happy to overlook so small an inaccuracy. I'm just flattered that an Important Person like yourself, who has actually signed a payroll check, would take the time from board meetings in Kowloon, Paris, Moscow, and Johannesburg, and from headlining economic summits in Davos and New York, to monitor, chronicle, and critique the dates and times of my posts on this board.

Geeze Provo, step away from the screen and keyboard for some time to get to know the wife and kids again! Have a "real" vacation!

Sigh. You're right. The two lines that I sent to this board, on average, each day of my vacation kept me from seeing and doing . . . something, I'm sure.

Check w the church first of course - we know holding even a tenured job is tough in these times!

I would never fail to check with the Church. Right now, I have a petition in to headquarters to permit me to take in a movie next Saturday night, and to attend the Shakespeare Festival in Cedar City the following week. I think permission will be granted, but, until then, I'm on pins and needles.

Thank you for your concern. It means more to me than you can possibly know.

Would you be comfortable with either of these men asking your daughter in private whether she had participated in an act of coitus interruptus?

The operative notion here seems to be that creeps such as I ask such questions out of the blue. The implied scenario seems to run along the following lines: "Ooooooh. She's hot. I think I'll ask whether she's ever committed sexual act X."

Which is, of course, complete rubbish.