Fox Advocacy Group Declares Romney Non-Christian

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

The true measure of a douche is the use of Latin to attempt to score a point in an argument. Insecurity at its best...

[_madeleine]

I'm aware that the Catholic church has softened its teachings over the past couple of decades. However, for the majority of its existence, it did teach that the rites of the Catholic church were necessary for salvation.

From my experience as an Episcopalian, I know that certain strict teachings were "still on the books", so to speak, still part of their accepted guidelines, although the strict teachings were not enforced or generally believed. I suspect the same is true of the Catholic church.

http://www.catholic.org/clife/prayers/sacrament.php

The history of human salvation is the history of the way God came to men. The first step on this way was the bridging of the gulf separating God and man in the person of the one Mediator Jesus Christ and by his work of redemption. By means of his Church Christ makes his grace available to all. Only in this application of redemption to mankind is the redemptive action of Christ completed. The doctrine of the sacraments is the doctrine of the second part of God's way of salvation to us. It deals with the holy signs which Christ instituted as the vehicles of his grace.

The Church Thus Teaches: There are seven sacraments. They were instituted by Christ and given to the Church to administer. They are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are the vehicles of grace which they convey. They are validly administered by the carrying out of the sign with the proper intention. Not all are equally qualified to administer all the sacraments. The validity of the sacrament is independent of the worthiness of the minister. Three sacraments imprint an indelible character.

"Enforced" is not how the Sacraments of the Catholic Church are administered. Come to the well and drink, or don't.

A person who seeks Sacraments of the Catholic Church is expected to be disposed towards an understanding of their importance. Though there are a lot of Catholics-in-name-only who view them as nothing more than things-you-do-because-you-do-them. Whether of not that understanding is "enforced" depends on the priest, and some people will "priest shop" to find one lax enough. But this is not the teaching of the Catholic Church itself. This is people doing their own thing, with indifference for what the Catholic Church teaches.

It has always been the teaching of the Catholic Church that those who die without ever knowing or understanding the Word of God, will be judged according to their own life and how they lived it. Catholics are taught what that means to themselves and their children, as Catholics.

[_madeleine]

Required for those who believe. These are not requirements for those who don't believe. Belief meaning, in Jesus Christ, God Incarnate.

Which, does not affect Salvation, as Salvation is universal, and not dependent on any human whatsoever.

It is a requirement for those who believe. A requirement. A requirement.

Yes, "believe and be baptized". It's a basic teaching in the New Testament.

[_beastie]

Yes, "believe and be baptized". It's a basic teaching in the New Testament.

So then that can't be held against Mormonism.

[_EAllusion]

More on the topic, I would predict that as the primary is contested, traditional religious right groups will have freedom to vaguely question and dog whistle Romney's Christianity on Fox News. If and when he starts to close the deal, which is the most likely scenario this time around, that'll be shut down. If anything, Romney will be defended on that front to their predominantly religious right audience. I suppose that's a nice outcome for Mormon/Evangelical relations.

[_beastie]

More on the topic, I would predict that as the primary is contested, traditional religious right groups will have freedom to vaguely question and dog whistle Romney's Christianity on Fox News. If and when he starts to close the deal, which is the most likely scenario this time around, that'll be shut down. If anything, Romney will be defended on that front to their predominantly religious right audience. I suppose that's a nice outcome for Mormon/Evangelical relations.

So you really think he'll win the primary? Will he get enough southern states to do so?

We have to keep in mind that many southern EVs not only do not believe Mormonism is Christian, but they believe it's Satanic, or somehow encouraged by Satan.

[_Runtu]

So you really think he'll win the primary? Will he get enough southern states to do so?

We have to keep in mind that many southern EVs not only do not believe Mormonism is Christian, but they believe it's Satanic, or somehow encouraged by Satan.

The difference this time is that there's no southern EV alternative to Romney. Michelle Bachmann is loved by a fringe minority, but most Republicans realize she would not make a credible nominee. So, that leaves EVs with Romney or maybe Pawlenty, though he's really shot himself in the foot.

If Rick Perry runs, then Romney will have a much more difficult time getting the nomination.

[_EAllusion]

So you really think he'll win the primary?

I think it's the most likely outcome. It's hard to horserace this far out, but he has a strong advantage in fundraising and no obvious competitors. His primary competition right now are weak religious right candidates who will split each others' votes if things go as they are now. So things are aligned nicely for him. He's the favorite on intrade right now with 29% likelihood. That strikes me as about right.

Will he get enough southern states to do so?

He wouldn't need to, but he could pick up some. Prior to McCain making some drastic flips, he was nearly toxic to the Southern constituency and he won the nomination in '08.

[_beastie]

Although the entertainment value of someone like Bachman or Palin getting the nomination is delicious to my taste, in the interest of the country, I hope Romney gets the nomination. While he's the quintessential politician, just as Kerry was once accused of being, I think the truth is that he's far more moderate than he is currently portraying himself to be. While I would probably disagree with a lot of his philosophy, I don't think he would flush the country down the toilet like a Bachman or Palin would. It's too bad Huntsman isn't a serious candidate. He'd be even better than Romney.

Of course, my first hope is that Obama gets reelected. But if the republicans succeed in tanking the economy, it will be held against him.

I have to admit that I take pleasure in the idea of some of the bigoted southerners I know personally being forced to choose between a republican Mormon and an African-American democrat. I think quite a few will just not vote.

Or there is the possibility that there would be enough discomfort with Romney to create a viable third party candidate. Which, of course, would ensure Obama's re-election.

Heh. What a pickle the uber conservatives are in. I enjoy it.

[_Hoops]

Although the entertainment value of someone like Bachman or Palin getting the nomination is delicious to my taste,

Me to.

in the interest of the country,

Please. Don't try to pretend that you have any interest in the country.

I hope Romney gets the nomination. While he's the quintessential politician,

He is indeed. Do you think that might be related to why republicans are not as enthusiastic.

just as Kerry was once accused of being, I think the truth is that he's far more moderate than he is currently portraying himself to be

Ah, the warm fuzziness of moderation.

While I would probably disagree with a lot of his philosophy, I don't think he would flush the country down the toilet like a Bachman or Palin would.

Which means nothing, or course. But they're nice buzz words.

It's too bad Huntsman isn't a serious candidate. He'd be even better than Romney.

Better at what?

Of course, my first hope is that Obama gets reelected

Why? What, specifically, has he done that deserves his reelection?

But if the republicans succeed in tanking the economy, it will be held against him.

Laughable and typical. The republicans only have 1/3 of the power.

I have to admit that I take pleasure in the idea of some of the bigoted southerners I know personally being forced to choose between a republican Mormon and an African-American democrat.

I do take pleaseure in the idea of bigoted Northerners having to choose between an incompetent black candidate and a woman.
I