Mormonism is not "Christianity"

[_beastie]

Hoops, instead of playing catch me if you can why not be more explicit. It does not seem to me that Beastie has distorted anything really. If any one is trying to avoid specifics it honestly seems like it would be you. Instead of dealing with her points head on you accuse her of lying, being obtuse or lazy. Yet it seems to me if any one is being obtuse, it is you. Or perhaps you are being intentionally vague in order to obfuscate the issue.

I am still waiting for your top three items that you think would disqualify Mormonism from being considered a Christian denomination. Then let's explore those items.

If that is to tough for you let's start with the comment of yours above. You argue that Mormons may claim to believe in Jesus for salvation. But it is a Jesus that you think does not exist. I assume that is because you "It has taken God and morphed him into something unrecognizable when viewed through Christian orthodoxy."

The comment really is a bit problematic because as I have noted to you too many times to count, Mormonism does not claim to be what the world would term Orthodox Christianity. Yet is does and always has claimed to be a Christian sect and even claimed to be The Christian Church. But I diverge. Start with your comment above. What about God and Christ has the LDS Church so morphed that in your view it disqualifies it to be considered Christian. And leave it as just Christian. Not something it does not claim to be.

This is a very reasonable request that leaves Hoops a couple of options. If Hoops still refuses to clearly address these points, he/she either can't or just won't. At that point, I think it could be conceded that Hoops is adding nothing to this conversation at all.

[_Runtu]

Well, I thought the trinity was the sticking point, as well, but then Hoops declared that Milesius would qualify as a Christian.

The good news (pun intended) is that Hoops is not the ultimate arbiter of who is or is not a Christian.

[_Hoops]

I've never understood this "wrong Jesus" argument. When people tell me I don't believe in the real Jesus, I say, "I believe in the Jesus of Nazareth who is the Son of God, who was born of Mary in Bethlehem, who fulfilled the Law of Moses, who suffered and died to save me from my sins, and who was resurrected after three days in the tomb. Which Jesus do you believe in?"

It seems to me the sticking point is the Trinity, which to my mind is an attempt to understand Deity by superimposing a Platonic template on the scriptures.

Well, I thought the trinity was the sticking point, as well, but then Hoops declared that Milesius would qualify as a Christian.

The Trinity is certainly a large issue for Mormonism. Non Trinitarians have changed Jesus in a qualifiable way. It goes back to why Jesus is the only acceptable sacrifice, we don't really know why it is is this way, but it is clear that it is. Yes, Mormonism teaches the historical Jesus, yes, no one is disputing this. But, it does not teach the Jesus who is fully God and fully man within a monotheistic framework.

In terms of Milesius. My stance is the same. I have no idea if he/she is a Christian or not. How would I know? How could I know? just as he/she has no idea if I am.

[_Hoops]

Well, I thought the trinity was the sticking point, as well, but then Hoops declared that Milesius would qualify as a Christian.

The good news (pun intended) is that Hoops is not the ultimate arbiter of who is or is not a Christian.

Nope, I certainly am not. Never claimed to be and nothing I've written here nor anywhere else would indicate that I've ever thought so.

[_Runtu]

The Trinity is certainly a large issue for Mormonism. Non Trinitarians have changed Jesus in a qualifiable way. It goes back to why Jesus is the only acceptable sacrifice, we don't really know why it is is this way, but it is clear that it is. Yes, Mormonism teaches the historical Jesus, yes, no one is disputing this. But, it does not teach the Jesus who is fully God and fully man within a monotheistic framework.

I must be missing something, as, last I checked, Mormonism teaches that Jesus is fully God and fully man. You might have a point with the "monetheistic framework," but then I suspect most Mormons would disagree with you.

[_Jason Bourne]

Their theology differs on some key points, but they fit into the same family. Mormonism goes off into a weird land filled with space gods and a mysterious star named kolob.

Comments like the one in bold above do little to foster rational discussion. Last I checked Mormons do not believe is space Gods. Mormons allow that there could be other gods creating universes and plans of salvation for their creations. It is not a fundamental doctrine of the Church however and there are lots of varying opinions about this.

Mormons worship God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. They believe these three are One God in might, mind, power, purpose, glory, thoughts and actions. Mormons believe that somehow these three divinely indwell each other. They do not believe they are one substance or essence. They believe they are separate and distinct but are still one as I have described. The believe the Father and son are persons that are embodied and that the Holy Ghost is a spirit personage. They believe the Son was and is the First Born of all creation and the only begotten of the Father from the beginning. The believe the name of Jesus Christ is the only one where men and women can be saved. Faith in Christ, repentance, Baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost justify men and women before God.


Mormons do not believe in eternal security. Thus Enduring to the end or abiding in Christ by obeying God's commands, doing good works are what keeps them in the covenant relationship and thus they remain justified. These steps also lead to sanctification. Mormons also believe to receive the highest reward-exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom of God-a person must receive additional ordinances and make additional covenants in their temples. However, I believe it can be demonstrated that to enter the celestial kingdom Faith, repentance, Baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost will open that door to them.

[_Runtu]

Nope, I certainly am not. Never claimed to be and nothing I've written here nor anywhere else would indicate that I've ever thought so.

I am glad to hear that. The bottom line for me is that I can't imagine God turning away someone who believed in Him simply because of a doctrinal misunderstanding.

[_Hoops]

Nope, I certainly am not. Never claimed to be and nothing I've written here nor anywhere else would indicate that I've ever thought so.

I am glad to hear that. The bottom line for me is that I can't imagine God turning away someone who believed in Him simply because of a doctrinal misunderstanding.

Strangely, that's my bottom line as well. God IS justice and mercy.

[_Runtu]

Strangely, that's my bottom line as well. God IS justice and mercy.

Unless, of course, you believe in "space gods and kolob." ;-)

[_Hoops]

The Trinity is certainly a large issue for Mormonism. Non Trinitarians have changed Jesus in a qualifiable way. It goes back to why Jesus is the only acceptable sacrifice, we don't really know why it is is this way, but it is clear that it is. Yes, Mormonism teaches the historical Jesus, yes, no one is disputing this. But, it does not teach the Jesus who is fully God and fully man within a monotheistic framework.

I must be missing something, as, last I checked, Mormonism teaches that Jesus is fully God and fully man. You might have a point with the "monetheistic framework," but then I suspect most Mormons would disagree with you.

No, you're not missing something. How can Jesus be fully man and fully God outside a montheistic framework?