Mormonism is not "Christianity"

[_beastie]

Yes, but salvation is also only possible through the kind permission of Joseph Smith.

Also, salvation is only possible through certain ordinances.

Also, salvation is only possible through the proper authoritarian lines.

Also, salvation is only possible through membership in one earthly organization.

Also...

You're incorrect. You're talking about exaltation, not salvation. Mormonism offers universal salvation - Christ's free gift to all. All who were born on this earth will resurrect. Only a very small percentage will go to "outer darkness" after resurrection. The rest will go to some version of heaven (three degrees.)

[_jon]

But Mormonism teaches that you can only achieve the very lowest grade of Salvation through the atonement of Christ. To reach higher levels you need handshakes, passwords, and a temple marriage - Christ's sacrifice is not enough if you want to live with your Heavenly Father.

That's true. Mormonism does add on to "heaven." But salvation, in terms of resurrecting from the dead and being in some sort of heaven, does not have those requirements.

Am I correct in thinking that in terms of Christian religions only Mormonism thinks that salvation doesn't mean the same as exaltation?

[_beastie]

But Mormonism teaches that you can only achieve the very lowest grade of Salvation through the atonement of Christ. To reach higher levels you need handshakes, passwords, and a temple marriage - Christ's sacrifice is not enough if you want to live with your Heavenly Father.

It may be the "lowest grade" of salvation, but it's still salvation. It's still resurrection into some form of heaven.

If I recall correctly, Joseph Smith once said that even the lowest degree of glory was so wonderful that people would kill themselves to get there. That's why I think it's fair to compare that to "heaven".

While Mormonism has its own mean streak with the involuntary forced divorce and loss of familial relations, in my view, it's not quite as mean as many forms of Christianity, which promise hell for no other reason than believing the wrong thing.

I'm an atheist, but if I had to choose between which Christian reality turned out to be "true", I'd go with Mormonism. Hands down.

I'll never forget talking with one of my EV friends (one who didn't really think Catholics were Christian, much less LDS). She talked about her nonbelieving brother. He was an atheist. (This was before I was also an atheist, I was an active Episcopalian at the time, which still made her a little nervous but at least it wasn't Catholic or Mormon.) He was a great guy. She adored him. She talked about what a burden it was on her heart knowing he was going to hell. But then she put it in God's hands and stopped fretting about it. Whatever that means.

And this was NOT a stupid woman, nor was she a malicious woman. I really, really liked her. (She's since died.) But her beliefs were really mean, in my view.

Compare that to Mormonism. The worst that would have happened to HER is the terrestrial kingdom. Her brother would have still gotten into the telestial kingdom. Both places comparable to heaven.

As I said, I'm not minimizing the meanness of Mormonism, particularly their exclusivity and superiority complex. But if I had to choose one make-believe religion to be actually true over any other, it would be Mormonism. (at least out of the religions I'm familiar with.)

[_beastie]

Am I correct in thinking that in terms of Christian religions only Mormonism thinks that salvation doesn't mean the same as exaltation?

As far as I know. I don't think other religions generally use the term "exaltation", although I may be incorrect.

[_Hoops]

... in my view, it's not quite as mean as many forms of Christianity, which promise hell for no other reason than believing the wrong thing.

Well, no, that's not what Christianity teaches. Maybe for another thread.

I'm an atheist, but if I had to choose between which Christian reality turned out to be "true", I'd go with Mormonism. Hands down.

I think I can see why you would say this, in some way. But in other ways I can't even imagine coming to this conclusion.

She talked about what a burden it was on her heart knowing he was going to hell.

There's much to comment on here, but I'll leave it with this: she was concerned for her brother. That's a good thing isn't it?

But then she put it in God's hands and stopped fretting about it.

That's what most of us do, knowing that God is both justice and mercy.

Whatever that means.

It means a lot. It means she knows that for her brother and anyone like him, God will judge fairly. That's significant isn't it?

And this was NOT a stupid woman, nor was she a malicious woman. I really, really liked her. (She's since died.) But her beliefs were really mean, in my view.

To allow God the freedom to be who He is? To be merciful and just? That's mean?

[_Hoops]

Compare that to Mormonism. The worst that would have happened to HER is the terrestrial kingdom. Her brother would have still gotten into the telestial kingdom. Both places comparable to heaven.

I guess this is a good example of why some think Mormonism is so toxic. Me, for one.

But if I had to choose one make-believe religion to be actually true over any other, it would be Mormonism. (at least out of the religions I'm familiar with.)

I wouldn't choose any of them.

[_beastie]

To allow God the freedom to be who He is? To be merciful and just? That's mean?

Choosing to worship a being who, in your view, would send a good and decent man to hell to suffer brutally for ALL ETERNITY is, indeed, mean.

Even if that "God" is the real one, one could choose to not worship such a creature. One could be a conscientious objector.

[_Hoops]

Choosing to worship a being who, in your view, would send a good and decent man to hell to suffer brutally for ALL ETERNITY is, indeed, mean.

Even if that "God" is the real one, one could choose to not worship such a creature. One could be a conscientious objector.

Well, that's not my view, so I don't know how to answer that.

Yep, one could choose to be a conscientious (I'm glad you spelled it first!) objector, but why? That implies being dismissive, rather than engaged. God wants engagement, participation, getting one's hands dirty, if you will.
As you know from your episcopalian days, the opposite of faith isn't disbelief, it's ambivalance.

[_jon]

As you know from your episcopalian days, the opposite of faith isn't disbelief, it's ambivalance.

Isn't the opposite of faith (a belief in something not seen) realism?

[_Hoops]

As you know from your episcopalian days, the opposite of faith isn't disbelief, it's ambivalance.

Isn't the opposite of faith (a belief in something not seen) realism?

Lol. No, not at all.