Mormonism is not "Christianity"

[_Jersey Girl]

Here's the second question.

If Muslim's believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ and are NOT Christians, what separates the teachings of Islam from Christianity?

[_huckelberry]

Beastie is still saved though she may be uncomfortable with the image. I see no reason in any of her words to suspect a commitment to the dark side or a loss of love for truth. She may abstractly consider murder and mayhem, but though I am not a foolproof judge, I suspect she has no taste for the real thing. Instead there is a persistent concern for truth and the wellbeing of others which mark her as saved.

It is hard to escape predestination working its way out through the need for truth and love.

[_huckelberry]

I suppose it is stating the obvious but the obvious seems to get lost sometimes even when well understood. The question, is Mormonism Christianity, is actually a variety of distinctly different questions which could have different answers and require different discussion. The question could mean is it part of the cultural tradtion an milieu of Christianity? It could mean does it contain some basic such as believing Jesus saves. It could mean does it conform to traditional agreements on basics? It could mean is it the religion the Jesus established in the first century?

It might be wondering of Jesus sees Mormonismt as the apple of his eye,focus of his intention, or another problematic egotistical diversion?

Not being a Mormon believer I must have some suspicion that it is more problematic side for Jesus Kingdom. I find however that simple view is clouded by a suspicion that all brands of Christianity are contaminated by some problematic egotistical diversions.

[_thews]

You should read the entire thread.

http://www.mission.org/jesuspeople/mormatak.htm
Joseph Smith - When asked, "Will all be damned but Mormon?" he replied, "Yes, and a great portion of them unless they repent and work righteousness" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 119).

I see this as more a condemnation of his own rather than a condemnation of non-Mormons.

Most of the answers in this list were given somewhat tongue-in-cheek, as I recall.

Joseph had previously received the section 76 vision and knew/believed/taught that virtually all mankind would be saved in one heaven or other.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I see you've resorted to using the old "tongue-in-cheek" opinion (as you recall) to downplay the teachings of the Mormon prophet of God. Is the following "tongue-in-cheek" as well?

http://www.mission.org/jesuspeople/mormatak.htm

Joseph Smith - "Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 327).

http://carm.org/joseph-smith-quotes

Joseph Smith said the Trinity is three gods.
"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370).

Was the Mormon prophet of God a comedian when it came to his teachings consiglieri?

[_huckelberry]

And, I think you would be surprised as to how many Mormons actually do believe in the dichotomy. It's hard for New Order Mormons to remember sometimes what more orthodox Mormons actually think. I got burned on this myself just a few weeks ago. I was talking about a book on the historical Jesus with my brother-in-law in the presence of my mother and sister. They all know I am not a Mormon anymore.

Keep in mind this was a purely scholarly book on the historical Jesus by Paula Fredricksen (who is a Jew). My mother and sister got really pissed and asked me to stop talking about it. My sister stormed out of the room when I did not stop, with my mother following behind. I found out later why they were pissed, it's because I no longer believe in the same Jesus as they do, their words, not mine. It was just a big wake up call for me. As much as New Order Mormons and liberal Mormons like to pretend otherwise, there is a vast gulf between Christianity and Mormons, and that gulf is set up and maintained to a large degree by Mormons.

Look, I would LOVE for this gulf to go away. It would make my life a lot easier. But I can't pretend that "we're all Christians" when everything Mormons do says I'm not. I'm sorry it's really hard to sing cumbaya and pretend like we're all on the same team.

The bottom line is that I really don't have much of a problem when Mormons claim they are Christians. It's the corrollary of that statement, that I most certainly am not a Christian (at least not one that counts), that really pisses me off.

Thankyou Aristotle, I think this is a clear point in a discussion given to ambiguity. I have not had such a direct clash with family or other Mormons yet I am aware that the Mormon church left me some fear of other Christian churchs. It is not a clear fear just a sense there could be some dark trap out there behind those strange church doors.

[_huckelberry]

My own sense of what is most different in Mormonism and the rest of Christianity (and in this context I feel a real inclination to write , different in Mormonism and Christianity) are Mormon concepts of authority, priesthood and ordinances, Polygamy.

[_huckelberry]

Considering Ev view of salvation for comparison I stumble hard on the question of who are these Evs and what picture of salvation is being considered. Tradtional Lutherans think of themselves as Evangelical as well as the Calvinist churchs. Somehow on this discussion board it sounds like young earth creationsists living south of Mason Dixon line and east of Dallas. I am trying a guess.

I could describe a general picture of Protestant understanding of the process of salvation. Salvation is based first upon Gods decision and decree to save. It is put into effect in the world of living humans on the foundation of Jesus life and sacrificial death on the cross. It is connected to real humans by real humans connection to the kingdom of God started by Jesus death and resurection.(to live cut off from the kingdom is to live rootless,drying for the fire)

That general picture allows a number of different views on various questions about details. I know of no indication that EV are less divided on those details than any other grouping of Christians.

I also have my doubts if this subject will mark out a clear distinction between Mormons and Protestants,Catholics and related groups. Mormons would fit into the general view following a strong freewill lean regarding details of application.(closer to Methodists than to Calvinists)

[_thews]

Considering Ev view of salvation for comparison I stumble hard on the question of who are these Evs and what picture of salvation is being considered.

Be careful when you lump all supposed "EV's" into one bucket. There may be some "EV's" that claim to know they are supposedly "saved" and what constitutes being saved, but no man/woman knows this answer, as it's all a function of interpretation. I don't believe in hell and I reject the notion that a person can claim to know what qualifies for being "saved" as they put it. Judgment isn't one of any man/woman, as it is of God... there is no foregone conclusion. What one believes is their opinion, but to claim to be "saved" is absolute BS in my opinion. I am a Christian because I believe Jesus Christ was God. I don't subscribe to stereotypical "saved" BS because it's arrogant. One is not "saved" unless God dictates one is saved, but who, besides God, makes this decision?

[_mentalgymnast]

I am the first to admit that Mormonism is NOT Orthodox Christianity, and I have been very vocal about my objection to many of the tenets. But I will not stand by and be told that as a Mormon, I do not worship Jesus Christ. It is ludicrous. I do worship Jesus Christ.

I could care less about whether or not the LDS Church is admitted into the country club of mainstream Christianity, but I'll be damned if you, or anyone else is going to tell me whether or not I worship Jesus Christ.

You sound pretty much orthodox on this point, Liz. I think that most active LDS would be right there with you on your sentiments expressed here.

by the way, I think the topic being discussed, "Mormonism is not 'Christianity'" is not even worthy of discussion. But that's just me. Of course Mormons are Christians.

Have a nice day.

Regards,
MG

[_thews]

You sound pretty much orthodox on this point, Liz. I think that most active LDS would be right there with you on your sentiments expressed here.

What exactly is "pretty much" orthodox?

by the way, I think the topic being discussed, "Mormonism is not 'Christianity'" is not even worthy of discussion. But that's just me. Of course Mormons are Christians.

Have a nice day.

Regards,
MG

Name one piece of Mormon doctrine shared with Christianity. Name one theology regarding Jesus Christ that's shared between Mormonism and Christianity. Mormonism may have roots in Christianity, but Christianity rejects all of Mormon doctrine as that of a false prophet of God.