Buffalo wrote:What is the utility of faith? Faith doesn't seem to be a principle that applied in the premortal existence, and yet we were able to be tested and make choices. It doesn't appear to be a principle that will be used in the afterlife either - faith will be replaced by knowledge. So we're not practicing for the afterlife with faith - it's only utilized in this life.
So of what utility is faith now? Faith is belief without evidence, and practicing faith in almost anything will have negative consequences. If you have faith in the wrong religion, you won't make it to the CK. If you have faith in a con artist, you will be swindled. If you have faith in a violent or perverse person, you or your loved ones may be victimized. If we have faith in pseudo-science, human progress is impeded.
So, even if you accept that the restored gospel is true, faith in most things is potentially damaging and dangerous. From a scientific perspective, faith will almost always yield the wrong answer. We don't need faith to make choices - we didn't need it in the pre-existence. In fact, the more information you have, the better you are able to make choices. We learn much more by the exercise of an informed decision after considering all the facts than we do by guessing. So free agency is really impeded by faith and enhanced by knowledge.
I would submit that faith as a religious principle is strictly an ad hoc doctrine, a theological innovation brought about to comfort believers in the face of a world that isn't really haunted by gods and demons and magic. People who don't suffer from hallucinations and don't eat spoiled food or hallucinogenic drugs don't tend to see gods or angels or hear voices. Faith is the ad hoc doctrine that explains why. Faith doesn't seem to have any value beyond that, however.
Buffalo wrote:What is the utility of faith? Faith doesn't seem to be a principle that applied in the premortal existence, and yet we were able to be tested and make choices. It doesn't appear to be a principle that will be used in the afterlife either - faith will be replaced by knowledge. So we're not practicing for the afterlife with faith - it's only utilized in this life.
So of what utility is faith now? Faith is belief without evidence, and practicing faith in almost anything will have negative consequences. If you have faith in the wrong religion, you won't make it to the CK. If you have faith in a con artist, you will be swindled. If you have faith in a violent or perverse person, you or your loved ones may be victimized. If we have faith in pseudo-science, human progress is impeded.
So, even if you accept that the restored gospel is true, faith in most things is potentially damaging and dangerous. From a scientific perspective, faith will almost always yield the wrong answer. We don't need faith to make choices - we didn't need it in the pre-existence. In fact, the more information you have, the better you are able to make choices. We learn much more by the exercise of an informed decision after considering all the facts than we do by guessing. So free agency is really impeded by faith and enhanced by knowledge.
I would submit that faith as a religious principle is strictly an ad hoc doctrine, a theological innovation brought about to comfort believers in the face of a world that isn't really haunted by gods and demons and magic. People who don't suffer from hallucinations and don't eat spoiled food or hallucinogenic drugs don't tend to see gods or angels or hear voices. Faith is the ad hoc doctrine that explains why. Faith doesn't seem to have any value beyond that, however.
Thoughts?
You're an idiot.
Thanks for weighing in, Joseph.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Sethbag wrote: Believers, please resolve this for us if you can.
1 Jn. 5: 4 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Faith is the asset you earned before you were born by the diligent practice invested in the love and will of God. If you paid little attention to God and his will before you came into this world, it is certain you cannot pay any attention to it now. Then we had little to distract us. Now we have the whole world against it.
Think of it as a residual of love. If you carried great love in your heart for billions of years. How can moving down into another dimension separate you from it?
Now if you are going to say humanity had no pre-thoughts before they were born, demanding the evidence, consider how advanced in thinking every baby is. We NEVER teach them to think, neither do we teach them to love. Both they do already and there ain't no chemical explanation of it. Even dogs do it. That is a God proof. Not the only one but a good one.
- in other words, belief in absence of credible evidence.
That's not the faith we espouse. In fact, we are called to embrace a faith that is directly contrary to that. Of course, you will require that we explain in natural terms that which is non-natural, or beyond natural.
You reject the notion that faith in the form of belief without evidence is a huge component of believing in god? You reject the notion that (according to many professors of said system) that god set it up this way?
Of course.
On this you are also mistaken. What you've described is faith. Repentance does not require the existence of a god. Belief in a god doesn't either, but that is a different topic.
Perhaps. I can only speak about the biblical idea of faith, as that is what I'm most familiar with.
Faith is very much self generated. There are MANY folks who have faith in a god that is not your god. Surely, you do not recognize the source of their faith as being their actual god? I would wager that faith in what you would call "false gods" is indeed self generated. But... maybe it's my turn to be mistaken.
I'm disinguishing between our faith and faith in a false god. I readily agree that you don't see it this way, but that was the point of the OP I thought.
Sethbag wrote:I agree with the OP. Faith is the "Trump card" that believers whip out and throw down onto the table when they realize they have run out of arguments.
I would disagree. I seem to have no trouble getting into arguments here and have yet to use faith as a Trump card as you've described. You may disagree - I'm quite sure you do - but even you would agree that most/all of the faith people on this board have not done what you've described.
All the faith of people who believe in gods other than Hoop's is self-generated. Hers isn't though, and she'd know it if she was wrong, just like everyone else who is wrong knows it. Oops, well, maybe not.
