What's the utility of faith?

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_Scottie
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Re: What's the utility of faith?

Post by _Scottie »

I think for many, the utility of faith goes something like this...

I prayed, with faith, for God to help me find my car keys. Right afterwards, a thought came into my head to where my car keys were. Ergo, my faith in God helped me to find my car keys!

I wager that these kinds of people pray about every little problem in their life. Maybe 1 out of 10 prayers are "answered", but after thousands and thousands of prayers, the 100 or so that are "answered" are proof positive that there IS a God and he IS answering prayers.
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_Mad Viking
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Re: What's the utility of faith?

Post by _Mad Viking »

GR33N wrote:I think faith was a principle in the premortal existence. I believe we had a knowledge of God and that we wanted to be tested and make choices. To do that we had to have faith in God that he could provide a way for us to be tested and have a way to return to him.
I'm not sure how faith was required in the LDS pre-existence. Sure, the spirit children that supported god's plan believed that he wasn't lying when he laid out the specs on his plan, but what choice did they really have? Either support his plan or be cast off with satan and his followers. I guess there was the third choice that resulted in a real dark tan, but that is another topic.
GR33N wrote:My perception is that faith does not always have negative consequences and often has very positive consequences. Your perception may be tainted by your own personal experience or personal knowledge (or lack therof) of faith. Faith in pseudo-science (evolution) abounds and human progress is impeded by it.
Example of positive consequences of faith please? Evolution is psuedo-science? How so? How is human progress impeded by acceptance of biological evolution as fact?
GR33N wrote:I accept that the restored gospel is true and my faith has yet to be damaging or dangerous. From a scientific perspective its true that the more information you have the better you are able to make a choice. Although, not all information is available to us and so faith is required to make a choice on some matters. We have some help on this. "By their fruits, ye shall know them"
What choices that require faith must be made?
GR33N wrote:God asks us to have faith in him, when we do He does comfort us in the face of life's negative consequences. Comfort and knowledge based on faith is of great value.
Why does god require faith is the question at hand.
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis" - Laplace
_Mad Viking
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Re: What's the utility of faith?

Post by _Mad Viking »

Hoops wrote:... So the faith we have is a gift from God. Its utility is that it helps us make sense of the world.
However, faith is not needed to make sense of the world. Furthermore, god requires faith. Faithless people will incur a punishment because they are such.
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis" - Laplace
_Buffalo
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Re: What's the utility of faith?

Post by _Buffalo »

Hoops wrote:

Oh, that's good to know. Where's your credible evidence?

I don't think that's the point of the thread. Though you started it, so maybe it is. Nonetheless, we are called to have sound, thought-out reasons for our faith. We've come to a conclusion. You may not accept our reasons, you may disagree with the conclusions, but to say that your position is the only reasonable one, or is the most reasonable one, - well, we would disagree.

So the faith we have is a gift from God. Its utility is that it helps us make sense of the world.


Well, I defined faith as belief in the absence of credible evidence. If you dispute that definition, you should be prepared to provide credible evidence.

However, I think you've answered the initial question in the part I've bolded. Although I would contend that it really helps you make nonsense of the world, but perhaps can provide some shallow comfort in times of trouble.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Nightlion
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Re: What's the utility of faith?

Post by _Nightlion »

Buffalo wrote:
Nightlion wrote:[
1 Jn. 5: 4
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.


Faith is the asset you earned before you were born by the diligent practice invested in the love and will of God. If you paid little attention to God and his will before you came into this world, it is certain you cannot pay any attention to it now. Then we had little to distract us. Now we have the whole world against it.

Think of it as a residual of love. If you carried great love in your heart for billions of years. How can moving down into another dimension separate you from it?

Now if you are going to say humanity had no pre-thoughts before they were born, demanding the evidence, consider how advanced in thinking every baby is. We NEVER teach them to think, neither do we teach them to love. Both they do already and there ain't no chemical explanation of it. Even dogs do it. That is a God proof. Not the only one but a good one.


Babies aren't born with "advanced thinking." They all seem pretty befuddled when they come out. They learn pretty quickly, sure. None of that, by the way, constitutes the least shred of evidence for a pre-existence.



You are not giving the subject its due. The physiology of life is the tools our spirit utilizes being already far advance at birth, relative to the log headedness that would clumsily fail for the longest time if a prepared spirit was not at the helm of every sort of physical life, not just us. In fact life is impossible without spirit. You are taking way to much for granted. Try some reverse hypothesis critical thinking.
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_Nightlion
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Re: What's the utility of faith?

Post by _Nightlion »

Mad Viking wrote:Why does god require faith is the question at hand.


Most spirits sent into this life were faking it in the pre-existence. If they had the love of God there, then they would have faith here. This life proves that. Enjoy.
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_Buffalo
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Re: What's the utility of faith?

Post by _Buffalo »

Nightlion wrote:
You are not giving the subject its due. The physiology of life is the tools our spirit utilizes being already far advance at birth, relative to the log headedness that would clumsily fail for the longest time if a prepared spirit was not at the helm of every sort of physical life, not just us. In fact life is impossible without spirit. You are taking way to much for granted. Try some reverse hypothesis critical thinking.


There is not the least shred of evidence that such a thing as "spirit" exists, let alone is responsible for what you're talking about.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Nightlion
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Re: What's the utility of faith?

Post by _Nightlion »

Buffalo wrote:
Nightlion wrote:
You are not giving the subject its due. The physiology of life is the tools our spirit utilizes being already far advance at birth, relative to the log headedness that would clumsily fail for the longest time if a prepared spirit was not at the helm of every sort of physical life, not just us. In fact life is impossible without spirit. You are taking way to much for granted. Try some reverse hypothesis critical thinking.


There is not the least shred of evidence that such a thing as "spirit" exists, let alone is responsible for what you're talking about.


Again you are ignoring the obvious. Not only does life own a keen ability to learn at a phenomenal rate from birth but the diversification of spirits manifested in talents and abilities manifest early. All things prove you to be in denial. Again, you need to reverse intuit and honestly imagine the real lack of a spirit. When proof is so omnipresent it simple gets overlooked. Think man!
The Apocalrock Manifesto and Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology
https://www.docdroid.net/KDt8RNP/the-apocalrock-manifesto.pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/IEJ3KJh/wonders-of-eternity-2009.pdf
My YouTube videos:HERE
_Buffalo
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Re: What's the utility of faith?

Post by _Buffalo »

Nightlion wrote:Again you are ignoring the obvious. Not only does life own a keen ability to learn at a phenomenal rate from birth but the diversification of spirits manifested in talents and abilities manifest early. All things prove you to be in denial. Again, you need to reverse intuit and honestly imagine the real lack of a spirit. When proof is so omnipresent it simple gets overlooked. Think man!


A great testament to evolution, but not "spirits."

Where are these spirits located? What are they made of? Can you show me one?
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_mormonx
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Re: What's the utility of faith?

Post by _mormonx »

Buffalo wrote: Faith is belief without evidence?

I don't know what kind of faith you have, but my faith is not without evidence. but my Faith is based in a historical person, Christ. My faith is being sure of what I hope for in Christ and certain of his promises and deeds.

Look in Websters Dictionary:
Faith - (1) Inward acceptance of a personality as real and trustworthy, of an idea as true and obligatory, or of a thing as beneficial; as faith in God; faith in one’s friend; faith in the moral law; faith in medicine. The word had originally a religious sense, and in its various uses generally retains a suggestion of emotional or practical quality. (2) The recognition of spiritual realities and moral principles as of paramount authority and supreme value. (3) Theological a. Historical faith or belief in the truthfulness and authority of the Scriptural narrative and teachings. b. Saving or practical faith or the acceptance by the intellect, affection and the will of God’s favor extended to man through Christ.

Faith is falling into a loved ones arms and being sure they will catch you. If you have no proof that that loved one is standing behind you, your an idiot.

- Also Faith is not something we create in ourselves, it's given to us: Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; [url]and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God[/url]"
- Romans 12:3 says “God had dealt to each one a measure of faith”

Faith is given to us as one of our assurances that we are the adopted children of God.

What is the means in which faith is delivered to us
Romans 10:17 says “so then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.”

We take people at their “word” all the time, that is what faith is, to take God at His word by the evidences he provides in his word.

What your talking about is blind faith, and I would have to agree, there is not much use for it in this life, unless you want to ease the pain of a cheating spouse and just believe it's not happening.
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