The MADB Body Count

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_Buffalo
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Re: The MADB Body Count

Post by _Buffalo »

bcspace wrote:
That is a pretty good list for an examination of conscience for a TBM.


Yes thank you. I have examined my conscience and I freely admit to some Pride and Selfishness. A Judgemental Attitude is not in and of itself a sin (1 Cor 6:2) and no LDS person believes that we are punished for the sins of our ancestors (you're out of context here). But by and large, pretty good so far.


Unless you're black, that is.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_bcspace
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Re: The MADB Body Count

Post by _bcspace »

Unless you're black, that is.


Still out of context.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_CaliforniaKid
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Re: The MADB Body Count

Post by _CaliforniaKid »

Kishkumen wrote:As sin is a factor in anyone's existence.

I disagree. "Sin" is a ludicrous concept rooted in a discredited Ancient Near Eastern worldview, which assumed that engaging in taboo actions can somehow intrinsically taint one's soul in a way that makes one loathsome and "untouchable" to pure divine beings. I reject the implication that there is any such thing.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_Buffalo
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Re: The MADB Body Count

Post by _Buffalo »

bcspace wrote:
Unless you're black, that is.


Still out of context.


"Out of context" is bcspeak for "uncomfortable fact."
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_stemelbow
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Re: The MADB Body Count

Post by _stemelbow »

Hey all, in all my questioning of LDS ideas and principles (yes I've questioned positions and beliefs of the Church) the only LDS person I can think of that has treated me in any way rudely is Will. Of course even that is a little questionable because all he really did was try and say I'm on my way out accompanied with comments about how I'm ignorant. On these boards (all internet boards related to Mormonism) most (LDS), if not all, have treated me kindly. of course I'm not anywhere near a "threat" as many here have painted themselves as.

on the other hand, there have been many ex-LDS and/or disaffected LDS who have been far more rude to me. I don't mind it....I'm just saying. Of course, many of them say I deserve it, or whatever. Maybe I do.

Anyway, I suppose its not the treatment that matters so much to me. On the whole I find the critics positions to be far too hypocritical, unconvincing, presumptive, all-encompassing, or hostile to be swayed too much. I haven't read here for a week or so and I came back to see so much hostility again. I forgot how ornery many posters here are. Oh well. I'm sure they think I would be ornery too if I were them. I don't know. Point being, I just can't see how the alternative to my life as an active LDS is appealing in the least.

I just wish it was far more thoughtful and perhaps even a little compassionate around here. When I read people's complaints about mistreatement by LDS and then see these same people act like bullies or jerks, I'm sincerely disappointed. I don't like seeing people resort to that kind of stuff. On that note, I think there are plenty of things in LDS ciricles that is problematic. I don't like many LDS folks' atitudes. I just don't. I sit in the pews with people who are arrgant and rude, selfish and hostile. That's far more troubling to me than the LDS posters who act like jerks--just because I see them so frequently.

Anyway, I feel its fair I give my two cents. I don't know rightly if my testimony has grown since patronizing the MDD board or other boards for that matter. I think I thought so at some point. I do feel I "get it" more than I did 10 years ago. I think I get what the gospel is all about and somehow so many of the complaints that mean so much to those who leave just don't mean much to me. i have kind of a liberal view in that regard. I love what goes on in my life. I can't help that LDS of the past made mistakes orLDS today continue to make mistakes, even if they seem insurmountingly big to so many here. In a way, i suppose that has made my faith stronger--acccepting that there was some heavy doses of humanity in the church's creation and continued organization.
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
_Themis
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Re: The MADB Body Count

Post by _Themis »

stemelbow wrote:
on the other hand, there have been many ex-LDS and/or disaffected LDS who have been far more rude to me. I don't mind it....I'm just saying. Of course, many of them say I deserve it, or whatever. Maybe I do.



I see it from just a small number of people on both sides. I doubt it would matter the subject, but some people will be jerks regardless. I doubt you would get much bad treatment from these kind of people who are believers since you came onto the scene as a believer. Jerks tend to treat those they think are on their side better then they would a supposed enemy.

On the whole I find the critics positions to be far too hypocritical, unconvincing, presumptive, all-encompassing, or hostile to be swayed too much.


Funny as a believing member I found it to be the opposite. I suppose I should expect this when the evidence does not support our positions.

When I read people's complaints about mistreatement by LDS and then see these same people act like bullies or jerks, I'm sincerely disappointed.


I'm hopping you don't think that about people like Runtu. :)
42
_Buffalo
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Re: The MADB Body Count

Post by _Buffalo »

stemelbow wrote:Hey all, in all my questioning of LDS ideas and principles (yes I've questioned positions and beliefs of the Church) the only LDS person I can think of that has treated me in any way rudely is Will. Of course even that is a little questionable because all he really did was try and say I'm on my way out accompanied with comments about how I'm ignorant. On these boards (all internet boards related to Mormonism) most (LDS), if not all, have treated me kindly. of course I'm not anywhere near a "threat" as many here have painted themselves as.

on the other hand, there have been many ex-LDS and/or disaffected LDS who have been far more rude to me. I don't mind it....I'm just saying. Of course, many of them say I deserve it, or whatever. Maybe I do.

Anyway, I suppose its not the treatment that matters so much to me. On the whole I find the critics positions to be far too hypocritical, unconvincing, presumptive, all-encompassing, or hostile to be swayed too much. I haven't read here for a week or so and I came back to see so much hostility again. I forgot how ornery many posters here are. Oh well. I'm sure they think I would be ornery too if I were them. I don't know. Point being, I just can't see how the alternative to my life as an active LDS is appealing in the least.

I just wish it was far more thoughtful and perhaps even a little compassionate around here. When I read people's complaints about mistreatement by LDS and then see these same people act like bullies or jerks, I'm sincerely disappointed. I don't like seeing people resort to that kind of stuff. On that note, I think there are plenty of things in LDS ciricles that is problematic. I don't like many LDS folks' atitudes. I just don't. I sit in the pews with people who are arrgant and rude, selfish and hostile. That's far more troubling to me than the LDS posters who act like jerks--just because I see them so frequently.

Anyway, I feel its fair I give my two cents. I don't know rightly if my testimony has grown since patronizing the MDD board or other boards for that matter. I think I thought so at some point. I do feel I "get it" more than I did 10 years ago. I think I get what the gospel is all about and somehow so many of the complaints that mean so much to those who leave just don't mean much to me. i have kind of a liberal view in that regard. I love what goes on in my life. I can't help that LDS of the past made mistakes orLDS today continue to make mistakes, even if they seem insurmountingly big to so many here. In a way, i suppose that has made my faith stronger--acccepting that there was some heavy doses of humanity in the church's creation and continued organization.


Stem,

You're still orthodox enough that you can avoid problems with the apologist side (which isn't all that orthodox to begin with). Try posting some frank doubts about some important issue and see what happens.

Yes, critics here have treated you poorly. Be fair though, when you first arrived here all you did was complain about tone and do that annoying "pep pep" thing. I didn't like you at first either, but then you stopped with that routine and I could see you were a genuinely nice guy. I think you're great.

But consider, it's not really about how the apologists treat those who are on their side. How do they treat those on the fringes? How do they treat the opposition? And vice versa. Neither side seems to really be any different that way.

Anyway, I'm not convinced you allow yourself to rationally look at these issues - you always seem to favor that which is more faith promoting over that which is most probable and which best fits the evidence. But, like I say, I think you're a cool cat anyway.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Rambo
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Re: The MADB Body Count

Post by _Rambo »

stemelbow wrote:Hey all, in all my questioning of LDS ideas and principles (yes I've questioned positions and beliefs of the Church) the only LDS person I can think of that has treated me in any way rudely is Will. Of course even that is a little questionable because all he really did was try and say I'm on my way out accompanied with comments about how I'm ignorant. On these boards (all internet boards related to Mormonism) most (LDS), if not all, have treated me kindly. of course I'm not anywhere near a "threat" as many here have painted themselves as.
Start asking apologists doubting questions and you will see how rude they can be. Sure not all of them are rude but a lot of them are. I think this is probably the same percentage as critics.

Anyway, I suppose its not the treatment that matters so much to me. On the whole I find the critics positions to be far too hypocritical, unconvincing, presumptive, all-encompassing, or hostile to be swayed too much. I haven't read here for a week or so and I came back to see so much hostility again. I forgot how ornery many posters here are. Oh well. I'm sure they think I would be ornery too if I were them. I don't know. Point being, I just can't see how the alternative to my life as an active LDS is appealing in the least.

It's funny the point of view can be so different. I would say the same thing about apologists. I think it depends on what side of the fence you are on.
_harmony
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Re: The MADB Body Count

Post by _harmony »

stemelbow wrote: I think I get what the gospel is all about and somehow so many of the complaints that mean so much to those who leave just don't mean much to me.


If you think the gospel = the church, you don't get "it" at all.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_stemelbow
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Re: The MADB Body Count

Post by _stemelbow »

That probably wasn't the best way to put it--that post I tossed in there. And I probably won't put it any better now, but I'll still say stuff--'cause I'm cute like that. I just found this thread a bit silly and felt it fair to add my two cents. What is with the MDD obsession with some of the posters here? really, does DJ actually believe that MDD had something to do with his departure? It wasn't a personal set of decisions? Somehow some attempted dig at people who are attempting to defend what some of you think is the impossible are bad people--so bad that after one leaves, like DJ, they feel so inclined to offer parting shots? Its absurd to not realize the very things he seems to complain about, and surely he's not the only one, are evident among many of the critic-type posters here.

These types of threads can only strengthen my resolve to faith. I don't want any part of the bitterness that these types of threads demonstrate (particularly since they become so transparent)--how miserable.
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
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