How did Moroni transport the plates from Mesoamerica to NY?

[_BartBurk]

Mormon apologists claim there was a second Hill Cumorah in Central America that was the scene of the final battle between the Nephites and the Lamanites. Moroni then buried the plates at the Hill Cumorah in New York. I personally can't imagine any way Moroni could have gotten those plates up there from Mexico. Why wouldn't they just say the final battle was in New York?

[_Baker]

On tapirback, of course.

[_Simon Belmont]

Mormon apologists claim there was a second Hill Cumorah in Central America that was the scene of the final battle between the Nephites and the Lamanites. Moroni then buried the plates at the Hill Cumorah in New York. I personally can't imagine any way Moroni could have gotten those plates up there from Mexico. Why wouldn't they just say the final battle was in New York?

http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon ... o_New_York

[_Quasimodo]

Mormon apologists claim there was a second Hill Cumorah in Central America that was the scene of the final battle between the Nephites and the Lamanites. Moroni then buried the plates at the Hill Cumorah in New York. I personally can't imagine any way Moroni could have gotten those plates up there from Mexico. Why wouldn't they just say the final battle was in New York?

This is one of my favorite examples of apologists struggling and grasping at straws in a desperate effort to find some sort of explanation for the total lack of historical evidence for the Book of Mormon.

They can't say that the final battle was in upstate New York because there is absolutely no archaeological evidence that it happened there. Not a single artifact.

After all the years of Palmyra farmers plowing their fields there should be mountains of swords, chariots and helmets (not to mention a hundred thousand or so skeletons).

The only possible (and very weak) explanation they have is for Moroni to have made the four thousand mile trek to bury the plates (he must have been grumbling the whole way).

It's quite silly.

[Guest]

Topographic map of Colombia
http://www.google.com/search?q=colombia+topographic+map&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Map of Colombian cities
http://gosouthamerica.about.com/cs/colombia/l/blcitiesmap.htm

In the final forty years of battles the Lamanites invade three times the Northern countries always by the sea shore and only get to the birth place of Mormon where the hill Shem was where Ammoron gave Mormon the plates.

Desolation, Angola, David, Joshua, and Teancum are all cities along the west sea shore. The account has the Lamanites coming 'down' to battle. I see that as down to the sea coast from the narrow neck of land and Northward.

If you look at the city map of Colombia you will notice that cities only go up so far along the West Sea. Even today anything further North is inhibited. The final battles did not stay on the sea coast but went to different cities, Boaz, Jordan and Cumorah where there were many rivers and fountains of water. This is exactly what we find taking the highland route through Colombia. Cali is a great city today and Medillin are both on the same Magdalena River valley that flows Northward. You can see from the topographical map that the land is flat and sweeps over many rivers. Possibly one of those bumps on the map could be Cumorah.
Three times the Lamanited invaded these lands and were cast out.

A treaty was made giving all the land Northward to the Nephites in the years 349. Then the Lamanited break the treaty and invade and are repulsed. The Nephites swear to go "up" to take vengeance against the Lamanites. Now, UP is from the narrow neck or the Gulf of Guayaquil in Equador. The Andes Mountains come down to the Gulf almost making for the Narrow Pass.

Notice how Zarahemla is nowhere in the final accounts. The Land of Zarahemla is further South near the Marana River (Sidon) and its headwaters are in the Land of Manti and the original Land of Nephi is further south in Chile. Joseph is reported to have said that Lehi landed at the 30' South latitude in the promised land.

I just thought I would make these points before I mention that the Book of Mormon was sealed up unto the Lord according to the Title Page. This means that it abides in a dimension of Spirit where it can manifest anywhere the Lord sees fit. Moroni did not truck them all the way up to Upper-state New York. When Joseph and Oliver returned the plates they entered a dimensional portal where all the treasures where kept. That cave of wonders is not in today's Hill Cumorah near Palmyra, New York.

The Central USA, Mississippi River/Great Lakes Book of Mormon geography cannot account for going 'UP' to battle and going 'DOWN' to battle. There is no such thing around between Southern Illinois and New York. The ONLY West sea shore in the Great Lakes is Michigan where again there are no 'UPS' and no 'DOWNS'.

And with all the Northward-ness of the battles Cumorah would have to be in the upper most reaches of today's state of Michigan. It falls to pieces and the Andes Mountain geography Trump's all. The Sea East and the fact that they were on an island before the time of Christ was the fact that the Amazon Basin was filled with water until the earth changed at the time of Christ.

And as far as South America never being a land of liberty I think Captain Moroni has some words about that. So there.

Calamarca, Peru IS Zarahemla. Dig it up and prove it true. There is a nice mount, possible the temple mound in the middle of town.


Here is a map of the Island of the Book of Mormon time. I think Mulek sailed up the Orinoco River into the Amazon Basin and travelled up the River Sidon, (Marana River) to settle Zarahemla.


You see where the green shaded area almost reaches to the Gulf of Guayaquil? And the Sea East was that far toward the Sea West as that green shading is. The geographical proof is that the great delta of the Orinoco River in Venezuela beats out the non-existent delta in the Amazon River that is just too young. It broke out late and sends it sediment too far out to sea because of the huge volume of water that flows. Before water spilled over the sunken Argentina and the Orinoco. When the breach of the Amazon occurred at the time of Christ all the water began to flow out that way.

Another interesting thing that bears investigation is just how so many species of animals and plants could be concentrated in the Amazon Basin. Especially since it was underwater for so long. It is as if a pristine preserve was established there by the Lord to do his handiwork. And we should see that as an obvious fact. Just by taking thought of it.

[_Themis]

The only possible (and very weak) explanation they have is for Moroni to have made the four thousand mile trek to bury the plates (he must have been grumbling the whole way).

It's quite silly.

This one has always been a non-starter for me. If Moroni became a resurrected being then I doubt it would be a problem of transporting them up there. The real problem has been reinterpreting the text to a LGT in meso-america. The text just does not support it

[_DarkHelmet]

I just figured Moroni waved his wand and said Transportus New Yorkus and he and the plates were magically transported to upstate New York. With everything else that happened in the Book of Mormon, how hard is that
to believe?

[_BartBurk]

It does seem to me the Mormons are in a pickle. The Book of Mormon prophecies seem to apply to the United States alone which makes it appear the Book of Mormon geography should be in the U.S. Unfortunately, there is no evidence of written language among ancient tribes in the eastern United States so then the Mormons have to move their geography to someplace between Colombia and Mexico where there was a written language. But the prophecies of the Book of Mormon don't seem to apply there. The Meldrum-FAIR people disprove each other and wind up disproving the Book of Mormon.

[_solomarineris]

Mormon apologists claim there was a second Hill Cumorah in Central America that was the scene of the final battle between the Nephites and the Lamanites. Moroni then buried the plates at the Hill Cumorah in New York. I personally can't imagine any way Moroni could have gotten those plates up there from Mexico. Why wouldn't they just say the final battle was in New York?

I have no doubts whatsoever, if you believe in Jesus Christ everything is possible.

[_Chap]

Mormon apologists claim there was a second Hill Cumorah in Central America that was the scene of the final battle between the Nephites and the Lamanites. Moroni then buried the plates at the Hill Cumorah in New York. I personally can't imagine any way Moroni could have gotten those plates up there from Mexico. Why wouldn't they just say the final battle was in New York?

I have no doubts whatsoever, if you believe in Jesus Christ everything is possible.

No doubts about what exactly?

And, if I may add, the conviction that anything is possible does not dispense us from exercising the virtue of prudence in using our (some would say) God-given reason in trying to decide what is likely.