The MADB Body Count

[_Themis]

You mean "Too bad". Just playing around. I can see positives from former believers too. In some cases I choose to see the negatives they expose and say to myself, "that's not what i want". That's all.

Again, I think you are seeing what you want to. I can understand this becuase a number of believers tend to see things in many former believers that just are not there. It's unfortunate.

[_stemelbow]

Again, I think you are seeing what you want to. I can understand this becuase a number of believers tend to see things in many former believers that just are not there. It's unfortunate.

I just said I think I choose too. don't we all? You are no better than most others on this, I'm guessing. If another wishes to live in misery that's his/her choice. I simply choose not to go there, as they say. Indeed seeing such a thing makes me feel greater resolve to do what I do. It helps me avoid that which just seems like no fun to me.

[_Buffalo]

You seem to be giving the same kind of excuse for gaining faith that a few critics give for losing faith. Interesting.

No gaining faith, per se. Just resolve to my faith. you see, if my faith is bad, if my beliefs are pointless or unhelpful then I'd appreciate seeing what is the alternative. When the presented alternative appears to be nothing but misery I feel strengthened in my faith.

If you're really happier in your faith you should stick with it. Me, I'm much happier as a disbeliever. Such a weight off my mind to drop the baggage of cognitive dissonance.

[_Themis]

I just said I think I choose too. don't we all?

I see you are agreeing that you do choose to see what you want, and no we do not all do this. I can see the good and bad from both believer and non-believer here. Some on both sides I think are extremely good people, some definitely don't seem to be.

You are no better than most others on this, I'm guessing.

At least you know you are guessing. I am not saying I am perfect, but I at least try to see things as they really are, which you seem to be admitting that you do not.

If another wishes to live in misery that's his/her choice.

I see some on both sides living in misery, and many are not. do you not see this? Do you think all former believers are somehow living in misery?

[_stemelbow]

If you're really happier in your faith you should stick with it. Me, I'm much happier as a disbeliever. Such a weight off my mind to drop the baggage of cognitive dissonance.

hey buffalo, as I've said about a thousand times here, the Church ain't for everyone...and I add neither is the faith.

[_stemelbow]

Heya Themis,

I fear you'll take my words as something i did not intend so I'll bow out for now. Just for clarity's sake, I did not suggest that all non-LDS or ex-LDS are miserable. I did not say no LDS are miserable. And I did in no way admit that by me admitting I see what I want, that I do not try to see things as they really are. I just have to concede that I do indeed see things as I want, and sometimes that includes wanting to see things as they really are.

This type of misunderstanding seems to crop up quite a bit between us, Themis. I'm sure its my fault, but its worth mentioning.

[_Buffalo]

If you're really happier in your faith you should stick with it. Me, I'm much happier as a disbeliever. Such a weight off my mind to drop the baggage of cognitive dissonance.

hey buffalo, as I've said about a thousand times here, the Church ain't for everyone...and I add neither is the faith.

I think your church leaders would strongly disagree, but I agree with you.

[_stemelbow]

I think your church leaders would strongly disagree, but I agree with you.

Well if you can arrange it, I'd welcome a debate with them.

[_Themis]

Heya Themis,

I fear you'll take my words as something i did not intend so I'll bow out for now. Just for clarity's sake, I did not suggest that all non-LDS or ex-LDS are miserable.

Except that you say you do see what you choose, and you don't want to be miserable as you see many former believers suggests strongly that you do see them all that way. Otherwise why would you worry about becoming miserable.

I did not say no LDS are miserable. And I did in no way admit that by me admitting I see what I want, that I do not try to see things as they really are.

When you admit you choose to see what you want, then yes I think you cannot be certain you are seeing things as they really are.

I just have to concede that I do indeed see things as I want, and sometimes that includes wanting to see things as they really are.

See. How can you choose to see how things really are at one time and be able to know you are choosing to see things as they are not. Do you know that some of your choices to see things a certain way are incorrect.

This type of misunderstanding seems to crop up quite a bit between us, Themis. I'm sure its my fault, but its worth mentioning.

I think it must be your fault. You say you can choose to see things as they really are, and as they really are not. How does one choose to see things as they know they are not? :)

[_Themis]

I did not say no LDS are miserable.

If you read my posts, I never suggested you did, only that I can see miserable people and happy people whether believing LDS or not. Your comments just suggest that all or a majority of former believers are miserable, which I think you are incorrectly seeing