Ray T. Matheny on Book of Mormon Archaeology

[_CaliforniaKid]

Here are some interesting comments from a 1984 Sunstone talk by BYU anthropology professor Ray T. Matheny, now retired.

"[P. 26] People have continually dragged up esoteric examples of many of these things. I don’t know how to evaluate these. Sorenson has found a reference from Lanai where a sheep’s wool has been found in an archaeological context in the Valley of Mexico. Also, metal-tipped, iron-tipped weapons used by the Aztecs when the Spaniards were invading is another thing. I really don’t know how to understand these esoteric finds that are made. They are not in a context that is understandable to me. We find esoteric things all over the world in an archaeological context, but we don’t understand what they mean. They are just oddities that appear. The things that we understand are fit into a system. … And so the archaeologist has neglected a lot of these little things. Many Mormon scholars have tried to put these esoteric things together and thread together a story that would support the Book of Mormon. In general, the archaeologist does not do this.
...
"[p. 33] I have felt that Mormons, in particular, have been grasping at straws for a very long time trying to thread together all of these little esoteric finds, out of context, and really don’t have much meaning when they’re isolated. But I like to work from the scientific base, because science base is the thing that I understand."

Panel with John Carlson, Ray T. Matheny, and Bruce Warren, “Book of Mormon Archaeology,” Sunstone Symposium, Salt Lake City, Utah, August 25, 1984, transcript in the Americana Collection, University Archives; L. Tom Perry Special Collections, Harold B. Lee Library, Brigham Young University.

[_Equality]

I like his brother Pat's group.

[_ldsfaqs]

Who cares.... Another non-expert in the fields he's criticizing..... That was his opinion, certainly not the Truth.

And what I mean by non-expert in the field, is that he doesn't deal with Mormonism and the Sciences, thus obviously he's an outsider having no perspective of how things relate.

No different than Coe or any other "expert" in a particular field who have NOTHING to do with Mormonism and the field in question. Sure, back in the 80's there were maybe a few finds that some false presumptions were made on, but certainly not since, and certainly not the "totality" of today's scholarship.

Atheists used to say the same thing about Christians when they used the Bible to research the sciences/history. Turns out those "poor ignorant Christians" did a LOT of good and valid work on the Bible and the sciences well before it FINALLY became "in vogue" with the rest of the world to at least refer to it when researching history.

Why do you anti-mormons, you "Christian" ones, use arguments against Mormonism that you should know better not to? One quarter of your arguments are double standards and hypocritical?

[_CSA]

There is no reason to fault him for thinking like a scientist.

"[p. 33] I have felt that Mormons, in particular, have been grasping at straws for a very long time trying to thread together all of these little esoteric finds, out of context, and really don’t have much meaning when they’re isolated. But I like to work from the scientific base, because science base is the thing that I understand."

And when it comes to belief many like to work from a faith and belief base because when it comes to belief it is through faith that it is best understood.

[_Morley]

....

And when it comes to belief many like to work from a faith and belief base because when it comes to belief it is through faith that it is best understood.

CSA, what does this mean?

[_CSA]

....

And when it comes to belief many like to work from a faith and belief base because when it comes to belief it is through faith that it is best understood.

CSA, what does this mean?

It means you cannot gain a testimony of Christ and his church through science.

[_Themis]

Who cares.... Another non-expert in the fields he's criticizing..... That was his opinion, certainly not the Truth.

And what I mean by non-expert in the field, is that he doesn't deal with Mormonism and the Sciences, thus obviously he's an outsider having no perspective of how things relate.

No different than Coe or any other "expert" in a particular field who have NOTHING to do with Mormonism and the field in question. Sure, back in the 80's there were maybe a few finds that some false presumptions were made on, but certainly not since, and certainly not the "totality" of today's scholarship.

Atheists used to say the same thing about Christians when they used the Bible to research the sciences/history. Turns out those "poor ignorant Christians" did a LOT of good and valid work on the Bible and the sciences well before it FINALLY became "in vogue" with the rest of the world to at least refer to it when researching history.

Why do you anti-Mormons, you "Christian" ones, use arguments against Mormonism that you should know better not to? One quarter of your arguments are double standards and hypocritical?

Yay, another substance-less drive by.

[_Equality]

[

It means you cannot gain a testimony of Christ and his church through science.

Or Santa Claus. Or the Easter Bunny. Or Fairies. Or the Tooth Fairy. Or Shiva. Or Baal. Or Leprechauns. Or Elves. Or Dwarves. Or Martians. Or Voldemort. Or Sauron. Or Aslan. Or Zeus. Or Loki. Or Cupid, Or poltergeists. Or shakras. Or palm reading. Or clairvoyance. Or . . .

[_Themis]

It means you cannot gain a testimony of Christ and his church through science.

The same can be said of any religion. So what. People gain testimonies for each religion in basically the same way, yet we see so many different beliefs. Science can at least look at testable claims that religions may make to see if they are accurate or not.

[_Nightlion]

[

It means you cannot gain a testimony of Christ and his church through science.

Or Santa Claus. Or the Easter Bunny. Or Fairies. Or the Tooth Fairy. Or Shiva. Or Baal. Or Leprechauns. Or Elves. Or Dwarves. Or Martians. Or Voldemort. Or Sauron. Or Aslan. Or Zeus. Or Loki. Or Cupid, Or poltergeists. Or shakras. Or palm reading. Or clairvoyance. Or . . .

Ahh, but you can make a scientific study of The Apocalrock to see the salvation of our God and convince all nations that God set his seal upon the earth to verify that Jesus Christ is the Lord of the whole earth and the Messiah of the House of Israel and the resurrection and the life of all nations.

Come on. This is why it was prepared. To pull the rug out from underneath the pride of human intellect that denies God. Consider this your wake up call. don't just take my word for it. Go see it for yourself. Prove me wrong. Can ya?