The MADB Body Count

[_Milesius]

As sin is a factor in anyone's existence.

I disagree. "Sin" is a ludicrous concept rooted in a discredited Ancient Near Eastern worldview, which assumed that engaging in taboo actions can somehow intrinsically taint one's soul in a way that makes one loathsome and "untouchable" to pure divine beings. I reject the implication that there is any such thing.

This is the sort of vapid comment that CK imagines is sophisticated. (Incidentally, I plan on handing your posterior back to you on a silver charger re: the greater number of sexual partners, on average, of sexually active homosexual men versus heterosexual men. But it is down the queue.)

[_stemelbow]

Themis,

I know I shouldn't say anything more because I said I would not, but I'll go against my better judgment again and reply. For some reason I feel inclined to reply for your sake.

I won't take your comments point by point because frankly you have very much twisted my words and thoughts into something unintended. I'll just report that I see you have done this with me a few times. Its very contrived. It appears to me to be nothing more than attempted cleverness to make a point about me. I guess that's kinda, without the twisting of others' words, what I did here so I don't hold it against ya much. I'll just note that it gets tiresome. I rephrase and repeat so much to you and you still seem to twist my words in unintended ways, coming back, often, twisting my new explanation into something else.

maybe its all me, but if not I hope you make note.

[_stemelbow]

I disagree. "Sin" is a ludicrous concept rooted in a discredited Ancient Near Eastern worldview, which assumed that engaging in taboo actions can somehow intrinsically taint one's soul in a way that makes one loathsome and "untouchable" to pure divine beings. I reject the implication that there is any such thing.

This is the sort of vapid comment that CK imagines is sophisticated. (Incidentally, I plan on handing your posterior back to you on a silver charger re: the greater number of sexual partners, on average, of sexually active homosexual men versus heterosexual men. But it is down the queue.)

I kind of agree with you. It seems calling sin a ludicrous concept is the ludicrous thing. Afterall which person in this whole world does not assume that engaging in taboo actions (however subjective that can be) can somehow intrinsically taint the person? I hate to get all crass as an example but perhaps child rape can serve as an example of it? who here disagrees that raping a child is a taboo thing that does intrinsically taint the raper?

[_Rambo]

Themis,

I know I shouldn't say anything more because I said I would not, but I'll go against my better judgment again and reply. For some reason I feel inclined to reply for your sake.

I won't take your comments point by point because frankly you have very much twisted my words and thoughts into something unintended. I'll just report that I see you have done this with me a few times. Its very contrived. It appears to me to be nothing more than attempted cleverness to make a point about me. I guess that's kinda, without the twisting of others' words, what I did here so I don't hold it against ya much. I'll just note that it gets tiresome. I rephrase and repeat so much to you and you still seem to twist my words in unintended ways, coming back, often, twisting my new explanation into something else.

maybe its all me, but if not I hope you make note.

I really don't think Themis twisted your words. What he got out of your words was the same thing I got out of them. It is hard to understand someone when you can not look face to face with them and hear their tone of voice as well. I know I have had many misunderstandings when I get a text or send one.

[_Buffalo]

I kind of agree with you. It seems calling sin a ludicrous concept is the ludicrous thing. Afterall which person in this whole world does not assume that engaging in taboo actions (however subjective that can be) can somehow intrinsically taint the person? I hate to get all crass as an example but perhaps child rape can serve as an example of it? who here disagrees that raping a child is a taboo thing that does intrinsically taint the raper?

You don't need religion to tell you that child rape is wrong. But to come to the conclusion that drinking coffee or eating pork is wrong and other ridiculous ideas, that's where you need religion.

[_stemelbow]

I really don't think Themis twisted your words. What he got out of your words was the same thing I got out of them.

Thanks for your opinion, Rambo. Now I'd have to be left wondering if you two are both wrong, or guilty of misreading me, or its my mistake. All I know is I did not say a few of the things he's accused me of saying and when I tried to clarify for clarity's sake he continued to attribute ideas to me that were not in my words. While I have my suspecions I don't exactly know how it happened.

[_stemelbow]

You don't need religion to tell you that child rape is wrong. But to come to the conclusion that drinking coffee or eating pork is wrong and other ridiculous ideas, that's where you need religion.

Thanks for going about agreeing with me in the unique Buffalo way.

[_Rambo]

I really don't think Themis twisted your words. What he got out of your words was the same thing I got out of them.

Thanks for your opinion, Rambo. Now I'd have to be left wondering if you two are both wrong, or guilty of misreading me, or its my mistake. All I know is I did not say a few of the things he's accused me of saying and when I tried to clarify for clarity's sake he continued to attribute ideas to me that were not in my words. While I have my suspecions I don't exactly know how it happened.

So what did you mean by this statement?

When the presented alternative appears to be nothing but misery I feel strengthened in my faith.

To me it implies that if you leave the church (which is the alternative) then your life will be nothing but misery. I could be wrong about what you meant but the statement does seem pretty clear.

[_Themis]

Themis,

I know I shouldn't say anything more because I said I would not, but I'll go against my better judgment again and reply. For some reason I feel inclined to reply for your sake.

I won't take your comments point by point because frankly you have very much twisted my words and thoughts into something unintended. I'll just report that I see you have done this with me a few times. Its very contrived. It appears to me to be nothing more than attempted cleverness to make a point about me. I guess that's kinda, without the twisting of others' words, what I did here so I don't hold it against ya much. I'll just note that it gets tiresome. I rephrase and repeat so much to you and you still seem to twist my words in unintended ways, coming back, often, twisting my new explanation into something else.

maybe its all me, but if not I hope you make note.

I really don't think Themis twisted your words. What he got out of your words was the same thing I got out of them. It is hard to understand someone when you can not look face to face with them and hear their tone of voice as well. I know I have had many misunderstandings when I get a text or send one.

Agreed. I can only go by what a person types onto the screen here, and I guess It's obvious I am not the only one who got the same message from Stems posts.

[_Chap]

It is possible to do the following without any need for a notion of 'sin', that is, some kind of objective contamination of the individual by a bad act, requiring divine intervention to remove it (whether directly or through a priestly proxy):

1. To decide for oneself that the rape of children is something that one detests in itself, and is also an act that has many other unpleasant consequences for the society we live in, consequences that may affect one's nearest and dearest as well as people one does not know, but who form part of the broader context that affects one's life.

2. To agree with like-minded people to work to ensure that the act is systematically discouraged by appropriate social institutions - such as an adequate police force and justice system, and measures to educate children to avoid obvious dangers.

Deciding something is contrary to what one wants to see going on, and acting to stop it, can happen absolutely independently of any notion of 'sin' in the classical sense.

Of course if all you mean by sin is 'bad stuff', there is nothing to say. But in that case you are emptying an important and very ancient theological concept of its special meaning.