Mike Reed Drops Bomb on Metal Plates

[_Morley]

....

I'm mostly thinking of an intellectual or scholarly love, by the way...

Which has, at least for me, held the fewest disappointments.

[_KimberlyAnn]

I'm surprised the Maxwell Institute actually allowed such a promoter of lies in their midst. What I mean by that is just because "some" of his thesis might have some validity, i.e. the fact that some LDS have conceded or stated the anti-mormon belief, that doesn't mean the overall point of the thesis is valid. It's absolutely not. His thesis makes us look stupid, and does so falsely.

That Mike Reed is so rude. He's making ldsfaqs look stupid. I'm sure we can all agree that's nearly an impossible task, but Mike, Promoter-of-Lies, with his slick anti-Mormon tongue, has managed to do it.

Someone should stop him.

KA

[_Equality]

And I wonder what's in store for Mike Reed after this? Can we expect a smear piece to appear in a future issue of the Review? Time will tell, I suppose.

Mostly what I think we can expect from the MI folks
is a whole lot of hand-waving and smoke-spewing that we
know is their specialty. I imagine any response from them will involve some complicated but
entertaining mental gymnastics that would make
Reason stare. I mean,
even if they had some kind of argument, we know they prefer to simply
evade the obvious and focus on tangential irrelevancies. It's the mopologetic way:
deflect, devalue, denounce, decry, and then, as they showed at the conference, disappear.
It's the same thing with every issue: the critics use reason, interpreting evidence from
scholarly sources and the mopologists mimic the tools of science to construct
apologetic "arguments," the purpose of which is to make unsuspecting
believers feel more comfortable about exercising faith in nonsense.
Under no circumstances would I expect the apologists to
take on the issues head on.
That would go completely against their standard m.o. No, they need to dazzle the
faithful with something that appears clever, even if upon a closer examination
all the flaws in their argument become apparent. For that reason, I think they will
consider trying to be "funny" in whatever they print in response to Mike. Something
eerily similar to this post, perhaps.

[_stemelbow]

stem,

People have long known that there were ancient records inscribed on metal plates. That part is nothing new. What is new is that, contrary to past apologetic arguments, people in Joseph Smith's day were also well aware of the existence of ancient writings on metal plates. That is not exactly a vindication of the traditional apologetic position.

K

Yep...it sure appears that way. Hopefully now we can put aside that formerly extremely effective (where the heck did my tongue go? is that it in my cheek?) argument since no one was aware that ancients used metal plates in their writings, Joseph Smith must be right. Its too bad too because I think that little argument alone raked in about 100 new converts a year and kept about 500 would be "apostates" well within the ranks. Next year I"m thinking I'm going to end up being one of those 500.

[_MrStakhanovite]

In my opinion, the old guard of Mopologetics earned their bones dealing with “Cult Ministries”, which were never really concerned with scholarship as much as they were outreach. The new challenge is coming from within the Academe, where self identifying Mormons like Loyd and Mike are bringing critical tools to bear on their own traditions. The frustration we see is the result of a slow recognition of that.

[_Doctor Scratch]

That's a great point, Stak. Although DCP's "Reflections on Secular Anti-Mormonism" acknowledges the formidable threat posed by ex-LDS critics, it really failed to account for the fact that there is and has been cross-over among people who are both ex-Mormon and quite NOMish. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place: they've been blubbering about the lack of serious scrutiny paid to LDS issues, and yet now that their wishes have been fulfilled, you've got Matt Roper and John Gee charging angrily out of the room in disgrace. You've also got Dan "The Kingpin" Peterson retreating into dumbed-down projects like the MT articles and "Mormon Scholars Testify."

The more I think about it, Stak, the more I'm glad you resurrected that DCP article, because I think it marks a pivotal moment in Mopologetics.

[_stemelbow]

hah...you guys.

So is Peterson stuck in some limbo of not really being the old guard but not being the new either? Poor guy. I love that Scratch brought Peterson into this. It marks a pivotal moment in his incessant whining--oh wait I don't see how it can be distinguished from his other moments...nevermind.

[_Kishkumen]

Yep...it sure appears that way. Hopefully now we can put aside that formerly extremely effective (where the heck did my tongue go? is that it in my cheek?) argument since no one was aware that ancients used metal plates in their writings, Joseph Smith must be right. Its too bad too because I think that little argument alone raked in about 100 new converts a year and kept about 500 would be "apostates" well within the ranks. Next year I"m thinking I'm going to end up being one of those 500.

Hey, stem, I agree. Now you need to go cheer up poor Lou, John, and Matt. They seem to have been rather more ruffled by these developments than you are. Maybe you can reassure them that their world did not just fall apart around them.

[_MrStakhanovite]

hah...you guys.

So is Peterson stuck in some limbo of not really being the old guard but not being the new either? Poor guy. I love that Scratch brought Peterson into this. It marks a pivotal moment in his incessant whining--oh wait I don't see how it can be distinguished from his other moments...nevermind.

You are not too far off Stem, while Daniel "Cambridge" Peterson has plenty of time clocked in with the old guard, he likes to pretend he is fully able to engage with what "Liberal" and Secular thinkers bring to the table. Whilst Dan pretends he is taking on “New Atheist” types, Blake Ostler relies on them to deal Evangelical critiques of Mormon Theology.

What happens from here remains to be seen, but we may be seeing a major shift in Mopologetics. All we here at Cassius can do is wait, and document.

[_stemelbow]

Hey, stem, I agree. Now you need to go cheer up poor Lou, John, and Matt. They seem to have been rather more ruffled by these developments than you are. Maybe you can reassure them that their world did not just fall apart around them.

Yeah, I agree if they reacted as has been said, then they got some problems (although I only see a rendition of how John reacted not the other two).