American Politics 2012

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_EAllusion
_Emeritus
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Re: American Politics 2012

Post by _EAllusion »

John -

I don't think I fetishize liberty over other values irrationally. And I'm not sure where that impression comes from. The only thread I can recall you participating in where my defense of liberty was too much for you was in my belief that smoking should not be banned in private businesses. I don't know how you would box me into a Nozickean minarchist from that.

I guess because the OP was about economic policy, I thought your criticism of Obama was along those lines. I have more time for this kind of criticism of Obama


My criticism of Obama as a president would be quite lengthy and would include economic policy. I actually liked Obama as a candidate relative to Clinton because he was surrounded by moderate University of Chicago types (Goolsbee, etc.) and thought that would bode well given the options. As it happened, he pushed those people to the back once in office and adopted Clintonian policy instead.

I'll also add that I don't come down very hard on Obama for his apparently right-wing terror policies because I think he's mostly boxed in by how the wars have been fought -- e.g., there's just not a pretty solution to Guantanamo at this point -- and by institutional pressures on the office he holds. Except for some legitimate criticisms around the edges, I don't see anyone making a credible case for doing things differently while still being able to preside effectively.
We probably could start by not opening up other Gauntanamo-like places and black sites.

This would be more believable if Obama hasn't worked very hard to ossify and extend the more troubling aspects of the Bush regime's "war on terror" civil rights problems. He's not just failing to deconstruct his predecessor's actions, he's worsening them. In the two examples I listed above, Bush did not and would not have the audacity to argue either. His belief that the president can invoke national security secrecy to shield the government from any judicial review is slightly more expansive than Cheney's and renders the president effectively above the law. Nixon certainly wouldn't have had anything to worry about if Obama's views on presidential powers were accepted. And I suspect if George W. Bush was on record, as the Obama administration is, of attempting to assassinate U.S. citizens in a cloak of secrecy with no charges, much less reviewable evidence, you'd be calling for his impeachment over that fact alone.

And while it may be the case that doing things like prosecuting architects of US war crimes or not standing in the way of other nations attempting to do the same might harm his ability to forward a domestic agenda, it's not like Obama has stopped there. And I'm not just talking about crushing civil suits as well. His administration has thrown the book at any whistle-blower on the government's abuses and tried hard to intimidate journalists from using those sources. That's completely unnecessary if his goal was simply to avoid political blowback. Also, the administration is continuing the engage in torture by proxy and, at least in the case of Bradley Manning, probably torture directly. So even promises to stop that were empty.

Now you might instead be saying that the president couldn't manage the security threat the US faces he he didn't do this. The president needs to invoke secrecy doctrines to conceal legal memos setting forth its highly expansive, but not entirely known views of its own domestic warrantless surveillance powers. The president needs to use legislative arm-twisting of his own party push through a 4 year extension of the PATRIOT act without any amendments or reform. But, if you think that, then I think you just need to accept that you support those policies and we should have an argument over that, not whether Obama's hands are tied.
_EAllusion
_Emeritus
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Re: American Politics 2012

Post by _EAllusion »

In some positive news, there recently were some significant defeats in Obama's war on whistle-blowers.

http://mobile.salon.com/opinion/greenwa ... leblowers/
_Brackite
_Emeritus
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Re: American Politics 2012

Post by _Brackite »

President Barack Obama's Approval rating is now only at about 40%.

Gallup Daily: Obama Job Approval:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallu ... roval.aspx
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_Brackite
_Emeritus
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Re: American Politics 2012

Post by _Brackite »

Here is a list of the important GOP Candidates for President this coming 2012:


Rick Perry:
http://www.rickperry.org/

Mitt Romney:
http://www.mittromney.com/

Michele Bachmann:
http://www.michelebachmann.com/

Ron Paul:
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

Herman Cain:
http://www.hermancain.com/
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_moksha
_Emeritus
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Re: American Politics 2012

Post by _moksha »

Brackite, good to see you back.

Does Rick Perry have the makings of the next great oil President and if so, would he have an adverse reaction to surfactants in the swimming pool?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_richardMdBorn
_Emeritus
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Re: American Politics 2012

Post by _richardMdBorn »

Joseph Epstein has interesting comments about the jobs bill at about 19:00 minutes into
http://podfuse-dl.andomedia.com/800185/ ... 92911c.mp3
_Droopy
_Emeritus
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Re: American Politics 2012

Post by _Droopy »

bcspace wrote:Awesome. Where's the reporting on Soros and his ilk? The Obama administration is directly tied to him:

American Constitution faces 'progressive' threat



Indeed. The Democrat party is brimming with millionaires and billionaires (including a large number of major American corporations, not to mention the entertainment industry) just chomping at the bit for a chance to contribute to the undoing of the Constitution.

How did you miss all the big name leftist doners, Mok?
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
_Emeritus
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Re: American Politics 2012

Post by _Droopy »

Still parroting Glenn Beck and WND?



Actually, he's just thinking for himself, Buffalo, unlike certain others who are capable of nothing but drive-by snark void of intellectual substance.

Get the drift?
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_bcspace
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Re: American Politics 2012

Post by _bcspace »

Does President Barack Obama really deserve to be re-elected as President???


No Democrat deserves election based simply on positions on the issues. Obama simply happens to have some additional problems such as verification of citizen status the same as say, McCain.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_Droopy
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Re: American Politics 2012

Post by _Droopy »

To understand the impact of the stimulus package and other policies on the unemployment rate, you have to know what it would've been absent those actions. For instance, it's not inconceivable that it could've been a few points higher if not for the programs.


Not possible, given the laws of economics and what we know of economic history since the long discredited academic theory of Keynesianism began its long and destructive reign as the official economic ideology of the federal government (and many others around the world, who have now been caught in the same debt bubble/money and credit manipulation trap as America).

Let's recount, yet again, the logically and theoretically obvious: Government creates no new wealth, generates no net economic growth, and its programs, which can only be funded by shifting productive capital out of the private sector, or through the creation of inflation, are purely redistributional. They do not create wealth, but only shift, or reallocate, based upon political, rather than market criteria, wealth from where it would have been put to one use to another where the same capital resources will be used to generate wealth for specific groups, entities, and favored industries.

No net wealth creation or real job creation, or real economic growth takes place following these principles.

As the almost wholly ephemeral "green" energy sector begins to collapse as its lack of technological and economic viability finally outruns the state's ability to subsidize its existence, and as consumers finally lose all patience with skyrocketing energy costs, energy scarcity, and the patronizing ideological excuses for this sector's existence in its present form, a new bubble will burst. Yet another government created bubble, in higher education, is looming on the horizon as well, not to mention the next housing and debt bubble that both the Bush and, with vehemence, the Obama administration begin rebuilding before the ashes of the present crises were even cool.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
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