Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb

[_ELYSAB]

It appears that all Kinderhook plates were written according the science of cryptography and its rules to avoid people easy understand written messages.

It appears to be so great involved science was the result of some planned work of betraying LDS wises and scientists from BYU. Because they were not able to break cryptographic keys applied. Otherwise, what was the benefit of inventing so false language that could not be read due false characters created by cryptography?

Maybe the plates themselves had been replaced by hoax ones, during the great confusion period after the death of the prophet Joseph. And if that is the case, maybe we are mixing two distinct things. The plates themselves and their contents. Quite like the same problem we have with the Gold Plates and their Characters Contents (as the sample of them, available through the "CARACTORS"...). It is possible to have a TRUE set of CHARACTERS (from original 6 KINDERHOOKs) on 6 HOAX Kinderhook Plates or even on none existing Kinderhook Plates (as it is the case, if we have none more "available", as is the case of Golden Plates).

If in fact the Kinderhook's CHARACTERS are really FALSE, being just HOAX, it is the result of so very MARVELOUS WORK of true WISES, VERY LEARNED and so GREATEST SCIENTISTS, being able to create so perfect CHARACTERS. Work of so greatest Head of Linguist Department of Greatest Universities of the World of those Days...

That is according to the LINGUISTIC of SABELLIANS and based on TOMBS being unveiled and unearthed in the very year of the first edition of Book of Mormon (very far away). Then with SCIENTIFIC WORK of DECIPHERING same CHARACTERS yet to be MADE there by SCIENTISTS... Such SCIENTISTS were to match Tomb Characters with CARACTORS: matching them with PERFECTION, as those present in KINDERHOOK Plates... How could if they were "HOAX" and SABELLICUN was yet unknown as a language? Yet to be unveiled?

For sure that would be so great miracle for science and human knowledge when wises of outside and inside religion declared plaates to be "hoax". And it is known in advance things that were to take place in many years AHEAD. Unless with God’s revelation... Maybe it was "pressed" to know that plates were rebuilt as "hoax". Who were interested in exterminating Nephitic Empire in USA and Kinderhook plates altogether? Them? What did take place in 1921 that support the "decision" to make the Kinderhook plates a "hoax", be them true or false? And to exterminate such possible Nephitic Place?
http://www.mormondialogue.%20org/topic/54967-1921-book-of-mormon-geography-hearings/. In 1921 was the "decision" to move the Nephitic Empire from outside USA (Cumorah Hill to Rocky Mountains) to Meso-America.

If that is the case, all the posted material MUST be removed as some intellectual sterile valueless SPECULATION as it is then something about things that can'T be evaluated or discussed. As people say, is so prohibited as speculating on “sex of the Angels”.

[_Persephone]

Although I am no more able to read the intents of Dr. Peterson's heart than anybody else, I think he probably finds many of Will's posts here offensive.

I would put real money on the correctness of that statement. No doubt that Dr. Peterson abhors and deeply regrets Will Schryver's boorishness. Unfortunately, his unswerving loyalty to fellow apologists and already stuffed email prevent him voicing publicly his true opinions about it.

In light of several things he’s said lately, I’m not convinced that you are right about Peterson and his “private” feelings about Schryver. I’m sure it’s true that some people at the MI have their heads screwed on right when it comes to Schryver, but I’m not persuaded that DCP is one of them.

We have to remember that DCP has been in a position to see more of Schryver’s outrageous behavior than probably anyone else at the MI. The two of them have posted here since this board started up. I don’t remember Peterson ever publicly making any objections to anything Schryver had to say. Do you? If he did, I never saw it. That tells me that Peterson is totally fine with Schryver calling women “c***s” and whores and engaging in verbal sexual assault of Kimberly Ann and others.

Look at these recent quotes from DCP:

I too have praised things that Will has written, and I don't think that he deserves the total-war obloquy that he's received here.

Link

I'm aware of no real evidence for misogyny on his part.

MsJack alluded to my supposed serenity about Will Schryver's alleged mistreatment of women. It's a perfectly cogent response to such a comment to reply that I've seen none.

Link

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

I've seen no serious evidence that Will Schryver is a misogynist.

I'll repeat that: I've seen no serious evidence that Will Schryver is a misogynist.

None.

Perhaps you folks should reprise a few hundred of the posts that were devoted to that endlessly fascinating subject here a few months back. They didn't convince me then, and they probably won't convince me now (particularly since I won't even read them this time), but they certainly revved up several among the dozen or so critics who regularly post here. Got the old adrenaline pumping.

Link

Just yesterday, Kevin Graham challenged Peterson directly on the question of Schryver:

Xander, on 20 August 2011 - 06:51 AM, said:
You won't even condemn the actions of Will Schryver, whose behavior was so abhorrent that the authorities at the Maxwell Institute threw him off their publication schedule because they wanted nothing to do with him or his antics.

And Peterson directly replied:

I think Will Schryver has been unjustly demonized.

Link

You be the judge, but I don’t see DCP as someone who is very bothered by what normal thinking moral people would consider the clear-cut case of Schryver’s vicious attacks on women that we’ve seen on this message board over the years.

By the way, do we really know, like Kevin wrote, that “the Maxwell Institute threw him off their publication schedule because they wanted nothing to do with him or his antics”? How do we know that is true?

You know, if it is true, I actually regret that it happened. I wish MsJack had never brought this stuff to their attention. I think it would have been far more damaging to the MI if they were to publish Schryver’s nonsense. Can you just imagine? It’s one thing to publish strong arguments by someone whose character is obviously suspect. It would be another thing altogether to publish the kinds of things we’ve seen Schryver argue over the years and then have them be forced to defend it. If it is true that MsJack’s exposè caused the MI to dump Schryver, then I am sorry to hear it.

[_why me]

Although I am no more able to read the intents of Dr. Peterson's heart than anybody else, I think he probably finds many of Will's posts here offensive.

I would put real money on the correctness of that statement. No doubt that Dr. Peterson abhors and deeply regrets Will Schryver's boorishness. Unfortunately, his unswerving loyalty to fellow apologists and already stuffed email prevent him voicing publicly his true opinions about it.

I don't think he cares at all and doesn't give it much thought at all. In fact, no one really gives it much thought in real life practice. Maybe on the board some people do because they are reminded of it. But in real life, very few are thinking of will and his way of posting. I really do think that very few people actually care at all.

[_ELYSAB]

The document "CARACTORS", that Joseph Smith wrote himself making copy of variable randomic CHARACTERS (not words/phrases) from GOLD PLATES of Book of Mormon, was prepared to send to a US scientist, Mr. ANTHON.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Caractors_large.jpg/800px-Caractors_large.jpg
It was made the copy and send to see if he was able to IDENTIFY and DECIPHER such CHARACTERS titled "CARACTORS". As to identify their origin (source), language, date, meaning, etc.

See the history of the origin of the CARACTORS document and more:
http://www.answers.com/topic/anthon-transcript

It is very clear that Joseph was asking for CHARACTERS identification as the title of the LIST of "copied elements" was titled "CARACTORS". And the TITLE-head name "CARACTORS" was very clear that the LIST was about CHARACTERS, not the usual ENGLISH ONES. And Joseph was not an ignorant person. He used CARACTORS to provide a CLUE for the USA scientist about the LANGUAGE of the people who made such type of Ancient CARACTORS. Even now USA scientists don't use "J.S. CLUES". They try to reason wrong as ANTHON did so long ago...

What I did? I considered that Joseph Smith was a HONEST and CLEVER scientist, who gave a great CLUE to a good scientist. I was working in Italy in 1998. I noticed so many words from very ancient Sabellicus are equal or very similar to those words in the Book of Mormon: in the way they are written or are just language corruption and/or with same meaning. Thus I decided to have a deeper look into the characters meaning and way of write for both very ancient language of same days (as 600 B.C.). I used the "CARACTORS" list, in LATIN-like languages (the modern result of SABELLICUS language).

Thus, instead of placing the Title-name (head-name) with CHARACTERS (from English) Joseph Smith selected the Title-name (head name) with "CARACTORS", which is quite like the French name "CARACTERE" also in Portuguese...

Thus, through the name, Joseph Smith was providing a CLUE that the CHARACTERS from the OLD NEPHITIC LANGUAGE had come from a language something alike the FRENCH LANGUAGE, thus something from ANCESTOR of the LATIN. Thus from the SABELLICUS language.

Because I am not as silly as people from some USA University, but from Univ. of California, Berkeley, immediately I decided to decipher J.Smith’s CARACTORS. As now also I decided to decipher encrypted Kinderhook. In fact the best name is "Joseph Smith's CARACTORS", as is J.S. who made the copy and created the title CARACTORS heading over the COPY of characters: the CARACTORS.

Knowing it was just a fast work of comparing the J.S. CARACTERS with the SABELLICUS's CHARACTERS from several places and dates, it was a quite easy and fast work, as it was also again doing similar work with the KINDERHOOK PLATES. It is long available in Web, even of LDS people. It is a pity that GEOCITES ended and with it so many sites. It was told they could be rescued, but it is unpractical...

Now I'm using in conjunction J.S. CARACTORS and the SABELLICUS's characters, mainly those for the desired period of time. As Kinderhook Plates are related to VERY ANCIENT PERIOD, before the Classic Nephitic (before 600 B.C.), I had to use data for very Ancient Sabellicus, as Sabinicus (very good data available) and Phoenician (more or less for the period of departure of Israelites to Greece (in Joel 3:6) and little of Greek language.

Now I hope to modernise the meaning of the "TRANSLATION" of the CARACTORS to modern CHARACTERS for also consider the meaning of VERY ANCIENT CHARACTERS from the KINDERHOOK PLATES. It is like to have a modern DICTIONARY and then you have some addendum lines for the meaning of each very old words (in our case, Characters, quite like Phoenician alike influenced Ancient Words). Thus we may gather their influence into “as one”. The new Book will become thick...

[_Kishkumen]

In light of several things he’s said lately, I’m not convinced that you are right about Peterson and his “private” feelings about Schryver.

Yeah, I don't really know, obviously. I get the sense that Daniel and Will don't share our view of what constitutes misogyny. So, by our standards we view these actions as misogynistic, while they feel no obligation to agree. I have found arguing with these guys on moral grounds to be largely pointless, because our values are really different in important ways. I don't assume that my values are necessarily better, but on this issue I am uncompromising.

[_Kishkumen]

I don't think he cares at all and doesn't give it much thought at all. In fact, no one really gives it much thought in real life practice. Maybe on the board some people do because they are reminded of it. But in real life, very few are thinking of will and his way of posting. I really do think that very few people actually care at all.

Your moniker is so appropriate. I feel it applies to me every time I read one of your vapid posts. Then I remember that I willfully chose to waste my time on your drivel and thus ought not to feel sorry for myself for having endured it.

[_Blixa]

I don't think he cares at all and doesn't give it much thought at all. In fact, no one really gives it much thought in real life practice. Maybe on the board some people do because they are reminded of it. But in real life, very few are thinking of will and his way of posting. I really do think that very few people actually care at all.

Your moniker is so appropriate. I feel it applies to me every time I read one of your vapid posts. Then I remember that I willfully chose to waste my time on your drivel and thus ought not to feel sorry for myself for having endured it.

I hear ya, Kish. I think it was either Pokatator or Malkie who first noted this by now common response.

[_ELYSAB]

PROGRESS OF TRANSLATION of "CARACTORS" (and NEPHITIC language)

In 1998 I was working in Italy and in a very Ancient cemetery for my Ancestors nearby Venice I noticed the "surnames" had some "link" with my very ancient people from Rome (from Christ's days). I didn't know both were of Sabellicus' "tribe, language". Making a search in Rome, to understand it, I also noticed that our Ancient names were the same in Book of Mormon and with the same meaning and spelling or little corruption. Moroni had been very popular name among us at Christ's days. And also other B.o.M. names... Even I could guess some "mistakes" in Book of Mormon translation (already in 1998...), due PHONETIC translation.

I immediately wrote letters and e-mail to some important SUD and LDS friends making the SCIENTIFIC REPORT of the discovery... From some I received the "silence", from others that it was a "HOAX": image, dared! I saved the letters, as if the cultural inferiority judgment.

As a scientist I tried to discover what would be the probable route followed from there to Jerusalem, considering the enemies on the way in 600 B.C. For sure they had followed to big Sardinia Island and then sailed to African coast and coasted to discharge of Nile River into Mediterranean and upstream. I got good maps.

Very soon appeared the location of NEFICH a town meaning PROPERTY OF NEFITES, bordering the huge navigation channel built (by Nephites...) by order of Pharaoh Nechoh II (in 600 B.C.) to navigate huge sail ships (heavy commercial cargo, as SUEZ) from Mediterranean Sea to Indic Ocean (to India, China) passing through Red Sea and Arabian Sea... I was right. Nephites lived first in Egypt before go to Jerusalem... Ishmael should have been a great trader chief of Arabians.

Thus I decided to go on with the RESEARCHEs on NEPHITES LANGUAGE and CHARACTERS. Thus I went on with CARACTORS, list of CHARACTERS provided (made copy from Gold Plates) by Joseph Smith.

My sister is an Italian Citizenship. It was not difficult, for a scientist, to get cooperation of Italian museums, Italian research centers, universities and even from Vatican, for so great cause: unveiling LDS.

Thus some result started to COME OUT. I was ordered to STOP and DESTROY all I had done. Quite like in the days of Galileo Galilee, when some science truth can't spread. Without an accusation or any trial I was "fired" of my calls and prohibited to go to the temple or even to provide any speech or testimony before the congregation. I was dead.

We may understand why one of the first complete Unveiling of CARACTORS TRANSLATION presented so many restrictions to some people as if inviting them to not read and not use my TRANSLATION. As they were not willing that I could do also nothing toward the LDS.

Many years, same person came and told that all those restrictions had ended. I didn't receive a pardon, as I was not declared guilty of something in some trial. Thus I guess you must forget about all the comments that are on the next TRANSLATION related to "CARACTORS".

More modern and revised TRANSLATION that was in GEOCITES, got lost with end of Geocities... No problem. A brandy new one, hybrid with KINDERHOOK, is being provided=made. Thus we will have MORE MODERN TRANSLATED CARACTORS together with VERY OLD TRANSLATED "ANCIENT CARACTORS" (KINDERHOOK), as if in a two SET that we can flip horizontally.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/2f70b625ce8167780ec523104786be8da6a12ad3447efac32cdfbd1f6b4ba76e6g.jpg
IT IS A VERY ENLARGE FIRST (yet rough, it was not yet revised, "angry") TRANSLATION OF "CARACTORS". CLICK ON URL.

[_ELYSAB]

Good news. The good translation for Joseph Smith's CARACTORS was lost with the end of GEOCITES.

But now a new and much better and much more perfect TRANSLATION is underway. A copy of it is provided just below, in the two first lines.

I noticed something AMAZING. When I made the first translations, I didn't know about Kinderhook plates. But know that I already know about Kinderhook translation, it is very clear that such Kinderhook plates are TRUE and HONEST. Because they "fit" with CARACTORS as they have things that are in the list of CARACTORS.

As nobody could understand CARACTORS, mainly the meaning of CARACTORS to provide rational changes on them to "create others on Kinderhook" (that would be the task of very intelligent and well informed secret service communication division...), it is evident that none person or even most well learned and wise scientist could invent new Characters. The maximum he could do would make copies of Gold Plates into Brass Plates, with the same type of Characters under the same rules: it is not what I noticed. But there are so many information in common, that points to a COMMON SOURCE, but not COPY. First of all the meaning of CARACTORS should have been made available to the person creasing the HOAX: not the case. It never was. Even so the characters are very similar, sometimes in DUPLICATE and had been spread on brass plates under some intelligent plan and for some evident advanced and planned purpose, quite like of didactic nature... We can say the same about the existence of the list CARACTORS.


http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/8e5cc860d5cafaa3279ffa0f652e491c036f953af1ac53f064876378a3f49b166g.jpg
Click on the URL to see the image quite well enlarged. You can already see each CHARACTER (in fact "CARACTOR"), and hand-written by Joseph Smith, copied from GOLD PLATES, and written over such document that was sent to the USA scientist named ANTHON to try to decipher it and provide more information about the Nephite civilization.

I suggest you coppy the file and introduce it into some picture viewer program that enlarge the image (even Microsoft provide the Picture Manager...) so you can see each CHARACTER very enlarged and the corresponding MODERN (nowadays) CHARACTER. Joseph Smith wrote including some WORDS. You can see them in the already translated lines. You can see in the VERY ANCIENT NEPHITIC, the same used in KINDERHOOK PLATES, some CHARACTERS that are exactly the SAME as they are over the BRASS PLATES. Should it be COINCIDENCE?

NOTICE that both in CARACTORS document and in KINDERHOOK plates it was used the PROCEDURE of SUPERIMPOSING CHARACTERS, as if to turning it IMPOSSIBLE for commom normal biased scientists translating such BOTH MATERIAL. Because they are both requiring "UNLOCKING, DECIFRING" the information that is quite like encoded. It is for smarts.

[_Dr. Shades]

Linguistically, what's the difference between a "caractor" and a "character?"