Atheism: the antithesis of cynicism

[_Hoops]

What does it matter what the Bible says about slavery? This is a God who commanded genocide, ferchrissake. Slavery is small fries compared to that!

You'll have to ask Buffalo, he's the one who wants to blame God for it.

[_mentalgymnast]

I think you're playing semantical chess. If you have a fair degree of trust in the concept of abiogenesis, you are exercising faith. But that's OK, I'm not wanting to start word games here. I'm just saying that when it comes to the origins of life, one must rely upon abiogenesis as being the keystone concept that must be true in order to push a god/creator of human beings on the earth out of the picture. This reliance is just another way of saying that you have to exercise faith. You seem to want to move the chess pieces around anyway that you can to avoid the reality that atheists must rely on faith as they rely on abiogenesis as being the "answer" to how life began.

Regards,
MG

I can't really improve on what Quasimodo and Ren said.

I am curious, however, how you define faith. It seems to me it's one of those words that means something different to those who claim to have it depending on the situation they're using it. If I say that faith is "belief without evidence" I'll get some religious person telling me that's a strawman. In fact, it doesn't matter how I define it; someone will come along and tell me I don't know what it means, which is only partially true. I don't know what it means to them (at least, right at that moment, usually because they don't like what I'm saying about it). See your typical Hoops post for an example.

So if I knew exactly how you were using the word, I think I could more accurately address your comments.

Faith, the way I see it, is a belief in something in which all the evidence for its truthfulness is not in...but there is enough support, in way one or another, for the "plausible truth" of that "something" that it warrants a closer examination and possible adherence, either intellectually or spiritually, to the "doctrines" that are part and parcel of the package of goods which are being examined.

So I think that this way of defining faith can apply both to those that subscribe to a yet unproven scientific theory...abiogenesis... or to those that subscribe to a yet unproven, at least intellectually in full measure and scope, spiritual or metaphysical "reality".

As I said earlier and others have sort of proved my point, we can play semantical chess and pull and push at word meanings in order to do a work around or circumnavigate a position that we don't feel comfortable with, but nonetheless when all is said and done, the reality is that those who look at as yet unproven but yet hopeful theories in regards to the absolute origins of life are exercising faith, at least in a purely intellectual sense, that one day one of the theories of abiogenesis currently undergoing exploration will be proven to be the process by which life originated on earth.

As someone said earlier, abiogenesis in and of itself doesn't prove or disprove the existence of God, but it does act as reason for some people to disbelieve in a creator. Personally, it doesn't matter a whole lot to me how life actually originated, what really matters is the "why".

Regards,
MG

[_Themis]

Faith, the way I see it, is a belief in something in which all the evidence for its truthfulness is not in...but there is enough support, in way one or another, for the "plausible truth" of that "something" that it warrants a closer examination and possible adherence, either intellectually or spiritually, to the "doctrines" that are part and parcel of the package of goods which are being examined.

That's why I tend to separate faith into at least two categories. One can be based on evidence, and the other is not. The one without I would call blind faith. This type of faith is where most religious faith belongs. In fact much of it has the evidence against, so one really does need their faith to be blind and ignore the evidence as well.

As someone said earlier, abiogenesis in and of itself doesn't prove or disprove the existence of God, but it does act as reason for some people to disbelieve in a creator.

This is not really true though. While science has shown how many things work that also have no need of a God, it really is the evidence against particularly the biblical God that act as a reason for disbelief in this God. The Old Testament screams of a Man made God who is a genocidal Maniac. For many who study the origins of how life began, it's just about how it came about, not whether their was a creator or not.

Personally, it doesn't matter a whole lot to me how life actually originated, what really matters is the "why".

How, can be the most important part of figuring out if there is a why and what it is. Your why is just made up like so many other whys out there.

[_ezravan]

Buffalo I think Mormons are the most stupid people to walk Gods green earth and I think that's why your here. Because you can pick on the most stupid people on earth, maybe besides JW's. Your a limp dick atheist. You can't handle the evidence of a Christian. You have to lay your crap on dumb ass Mormons which every one in the entire world thinks are a laughable cult. Bring up Mormons to Christians and we laugh because they are stupid. They are our lowest hope. We live them because they are stupid. Like loving a retarded kid. But you, your a stupid atheist. Atleast Mormons admit a god. Your an idiot. You hate this god, you hate that anyone would want anything from you. How
Wounderful it would be if god did bot exist. But buffalo your gonna burn an eternal fire unless you fall on Christ. Fu$& Mormons. Look at Christ. Joseph thinks he is better than him. But you have no hope unless you find Christ. He expects nothing from you. He gives all you need. Mormons, ya whatever. Jesus + a thousand things you do

[_beefcalf]

Buffalo I think Mormons are the most stupid people to walk Gods green earth and I think that's why your here. Because you cn pick on the mist stupid people on earth, maybe besides JW's. Your a limp dick atheist. You can't handle the evidence of a Christian. You have to lay your crap on dumb ass Mormons which every one in the entire world thinks are a laughable cult. Bring up Mormons to Christians and we laugh because they are stupid. They are our lowest hope. We live them because they are stupid. Like loving a r******* kid. But you, your a stupid atheist. Atleast Mormons admit a god. Your an idiot. You hate this god, you hate that anyone would want anything from you. How
Wounderful it would be if god did bot exist. But buffalo your gonna burn an eternal fire unless you fall on Christ. Fu$& Mormons. Look at Christ. Joseph thinks he is better than him. But you have no hope unless you find Christ. He expects nothing from you. He gives all you need. Mormons, ya whatever. Jesus + a thousand things you do

Translation: We Christians are thankful that you Mormons are around so when the world calls us the stupidest people on the planet, we can point to someone even stupider.

[_ezravan]

Translation: We Christians are thankful that you Mormons are around so when the world calls us the stupidest people on the planet, we can point to someone even stupider.

[/quote]
I'll tell you the truth. We are ordered to go against Mormons. The Bible is super clear... Any other gospel is Satan. And Mormons are Satan. Though we love them. But you sir your of a different breed. We are not to correct you but to tell you you are going to hell. You will burn unless you bow to Christ. Bow now and you will be saved. If you want ti compare Christian books to Mormon books please do. But dint be an idiot and deny the man that changed all history. Christ.

[_beefcalf]

Translation: We Christians are thankful that you Mormons are around so when the world calls us the stupidest people on the planet, we can point to someone even stupider.

I'll tell you the truth. We are ordered to go against Mormons. The Bible is super clear... Any other gospel is Satan. And Mormons are Satan. Though we love them. But you sir your of a different breed. We are not to correct you but to tell you you are going to hell. You will burn unless you bow to Christ. Bow now and you will be saved. If you want ti compare Christian books to Mormon books please do. But dint be an idiot and deny the man that changed all history. Christ.

Wow!

I didn't realize this.

I guess I'd better bow down to this Christ of yours, eh? I'm sure, he being a God and all that, he will fully realize that I am bowing to him because I truly, truly love him, and not at all because I'm scared of the explicit threat he is making about damning me to an eternity of suffering... right?

I mean, even though he is threatening me with an eternity of pain and suffering if I don't love him, he'll know, just know, that I am professing my love for him out of my sincerity, and not out of some sense of preservation or out of some sick urge to avoid endless pain, right?

Hey! I think, after I swear fealty to your Christ to keep him from getting pissed at me, I'll try to adopt his ways, and become Christ-like myself! I will demand that my children kneel before me each day and swear their own oaths of fealty to me. And in exchange for their loyalty and devotion, I will promise them that I won't doom them to tens of thousands of centuries of unimaginable pain and suffering.

Boy will my kids love me then! Honestly and truly love me! And I can bask in the warm glow of their love and devotion to me!

This whole 'be like Jesus' thing is starting to sound like a pretty good gig!

Thanks erzavan!

[_ezravan]

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[quote="beefcalf"][
Wow!

I didn't realize this.

I guess I'd better bow down to this Christ of yours, eh? I'm sure, he being a God and all that, then! Honestly and truly [b]love[/b] me! And I can bask in the warm glow of their love and devotion to me!

This whole 'be like Jesus' thing is starting to sound like a pretty good gig!

Thanks erzavan![/quote]

I want to make something clear about Christ. Mormons say you have to obey the gospel. I tell you this. Be a sinner a deep sinner and that is who Christ came for. He came for the gays the drunks the crack heads. These
Or ins who think they are his sons will be shocked because hr came for you the sinners. The mist undesirable of this world. If Jesus was here now he would be in the crack house and he would be loving then. The Mormons he would call the devil because they thought they could do good. But no one does good. Jesus lives the gays and the crack heads.

[_ezravan]

Translation: We Christians are thankful that you Mormons are around so when the world calls us the stupidest people on the planet, we can point to someone
I guess I'd better bow down to this Christ of yours, eh? I'm sure, he being a God and all that, he will fully realize that I am bowing to him because I truly, truly love him, and not at all because I'm scared of the explicit threat he is making about

Okay listen up dumb ass. You think you will disprove god by the sayings if a myth. I have mo hope geinisus. You dumb ass. The six days is a myth and I have never thought it more. What are you a dumb ass that thought the six days were history. Dumb ad
As bitch. My gneiss is freedom. Give me freedom.
Bring it on
You atheist freedom? From what you twatts.

[_ezravan]

Translation: We Christians are thankful that you Mormons are around so when the world calls us the stupidest people on the planet, we can point to someone
I guess I'd better bow down to this Christ of yours, eh? I'm sure, he being a God and all that, he will fully realize that I am bowing to him because I truly, truly love him, and not at all because I'm scared of the explicit threat he is making about

Okay listen up dumb ass. You think you will disprove god by the sayings if a myth. I have mo hope geinisus. You dumb ass. The six days is a myth and I have never thought it more. What are you a dumb ass that thought the six days were history. Dumb ad
As bitch. My gneiss is freedom. Give me freedom.
Bring it on
You atheist freedom? From what you twatts.